Read the article.....it says that people did ask that question, and that Mayor Reaves told the public that the earliest it could be placed on the ballot for referendum in March, 2014

Yes Mary, I realize that. I was trying to ask my question as nicely as possible though. I want to know why the scheduling/timing of this project was as such that it would not be possible for a referendum to go through until 2014, yet the project itself is set for groundbreaking and completion this coming fall. I do not agree in the "surprise" timing of this project that seems to have been done in such a way to make it impossible to make any real objection to this project other than town hall meetings where everyone is assured of exactly the same sound bites that have been laid on us for the last two weeks starting when this project was announced.

I'm aware of the schedule/timing of how this went down. This was essentially my biggest concern about the project.

I think the matter should go to referendum so the people who are ultimatly responsible for paying for this project can at least have some say.

Mr. Olenick,
I know someone came around to my subdivision but I was not able to answer the door due to a medical condition. Do you know of anywhere specifically I may be able to sign? Along with my husband and son. I appreciate your help.
Thank you.

Good Morning Ms. Ginger, May I suggest you call either Hank or Jim Ladas (both who have posted their phone numbers on these blogs) and I am sure either one can make arrangements for someone to come to you with the petitions. If you know of anyone else in a similar situation, please don't hesitate to ask for their help. Good luck and hope you are on the mend.

YES!!!! There will be petitions circulating at the train station on Main St. begining at 5:30 today...

Good deal. I will run across the street tomorrow to sign.

There was also a gentlemen who spoke during public comments who is organizing a meeting Wednesday (tomorrow) evening at his home to organize petitions. His name and address escapes me. Can anyone post that information? Too bad the rebroadcast isn't until Thursday.

Tim,
Having one at the library would be a good place for everyone to be able to locate and sign the petition.

I'd be curious to know what the ver batim quote was. All the people who are blindly and vehemently supporting this venture go and on about how this will not cost taxpayer's money, but their argument always trails off once pressed with the "what if its profitability are simply wrong?" question.

I agree, even if it makes sense, why the rush to judgement. An idea that is good today should still be a good idea tomorrow.

Would it make sense to have a few petitions available for signing in different places in town: train station, library, both post offices, etc?

I moved to Lemont for the same reason, Lemont was a nice quiet, quaint little town, small enough where you could get to know the friendly faces of those who lived here. I am not so sure I would want an extra 650,000 people running around our town. And I sure as heck would not want to be responsible for a $21 million commercial facility that would seem to have a better chance of failing than succeeding. That $21 mission could easily multiply over time. Adding toxic waste to the mix only increases the liability picture. I'm with you Dr Blas, we need to give very careful consideration to all aspects of this proposed project before proceeding. The towns people should most definitly be able to see all facts, see how the facts were obtained and make an informed decision. This is not something that a few public servants should be able to decide on their own.

It's undeveloped land that does not even belong to Lemont. The deal with MWRD states that they will get 25% of the revenue on this facility by literally doing nothing but letting Lemont use land they weren't using anyway. Even if it's NOT profitable, they still get 5k (drop in the bucket, sure).

How can the profitability projections even be taken seriously since they are based on a facility of a different size in the study? Similar facilities are not doing well with this business model. You don't have to take my word for it either as it was written about rather lengthily in Crain's.

Not too very long ago, I participated in tournaments and activities that took place in facilities similar (though not as grand in design) to this. It was expensive to even take part. We would go to the area where it was being held, I would do my thing at the facility, and we would leave. I can't see my mom taking me and a bunch of kids out to a bar or even out to dinner after an event. Parents are generally budget conscious and that's the demographic for this facility.

I'm glad developers are contacting the mayor about empty storefronts. Perhaps they should also contact the owners of said storefronts.

If enough petition signatures are gathered, I'd hardly call that a do-nothing operation. What do you have against a referendum? Let the people decide. A lot of this could be put to rest immediately by simply letting the people vote on it instead of it being rammed down our throats.

The petition is not against anything. It is FOR a referendum vote. If there's a referendum vote and it passes, then problem solved as the people will have spoken. For a TWENTY-ONE MILLION DOLLAR venture, I don't this too much for anyone to ask.

So say the bare minimum of signers (785) names are passed out to your "business owner friends". Then what? Will they no longer be allowed to do business with these people? How will this be enforced? Are you going to procure head shots of each signer as well? Will people be screened at business door entrances?

You can personally circulate this list all you want, but it will be a waste of your time.

It is called transparency Spencer, the business owners can do what they want with it. If you are trying to punish them then they should know who you are. Good idea by the way on the head shots, will bring a camera to the train station today.

Transparency is something expected more from our government than in citizen consumers. I seriously doubt your silly threat of taking pictures and passing out a list is genuine, but if it were, do you really think businesses are going to turn away people in this town because they wanted a say in how 21 million dollars was going to be spent?

How are you going to match names up to the faces? Have you considered there may be legal ramifications to your threatened actions? Again, who will check these faces/names at any business' door? What will be your supposed reaction if a business finds out a costumer is "on the list?" If you're going to make ridiculous threats Todd, expect tough questions in return.

100% genuine Spencer, nothing illegal about disseminating public information within the village. As I have said it will be up to the individual business owner what they will do with the information. Reason I am doing it is because it is important for the local business owners, especially those who are struggling and may be forced to close in the next 12 months (which will be the delay you cause), who supports them in the village and who does not. Also residents should know who is against trying to help the village grow and prosper. You sign this petition and you are punishing local businesses, plain and simple.

Again the petition is not AGAINST the facility, it is FOR a referendum vote.

You still haven't answered my question about matching up names to faces in the pictures you take. That's the thing about logistics. You have to figure them out before coming up with grand statements and/or nonsensical plans. Otherwise, the plan itself can be shot to be pieces with logic.

Good luck with your list Todd/JR though. I'm sure it won't be a total waste of time or anything. Really.

Its your list Spencer not mine. It will take me less time to get the list from the village then it will take you to run across to the train station to sign it. Your "logic" is wrong, you sign the petition and you are delaying construction for a year or more. A year of lost revenue for local businesses and the village. 100% guarantee that some local businesses will close in that year due to your signature. Some if not all would have been able to survive without your signature, do you understand that logic?

This isn't the movie "Field of Dreams" and neither you or the mayor is Kevin Kostner. That means neither of you would be able or even willing to pick up the tab on the bonds if it were to fail.

This is a 21 million dollar venture. That's not small potatoes for a town of this size. If it were to fail, the financial havoc it would wreak would hurt everyone.

The village sold $5 mil in bonds to build a new water line, why weren't you running around collecting signatures to stop that Spencer or were you too busy taking pictures of yourself drinking shots? $5 mil isn't small potatoes either and a new water line isn't going to bring in hundreds of thousands of people into Lemont who will spend their money here and help many local businesses survive like this facility will.

Are you seriously comparing a project that provides a vital service (WATER) to a risk-based investment that would probably be better served in the hands of private business than local government?

Of note, I didn't take that picture. A friend of mine did while we were patronizing Tom's. I like how you focus on my picture even though it has nothing to do with any of the issues at hand. What's your name JR/Todd? Where's your picture? Why is this the first subject material you (Todd/JR) have ever commented on? What kind of skin do you have in this game? Are you one of the contractors? If so, how was that bid procured? What do you have against democratic votes?

If the local government were so worried about the local businesses being hurt as a result of a delay due to a referendum, they would have made their plans clear in 2012 and let it get voted on well in advance.

Todd/JR,

I changed my picture just for you guys. I hope you enjoy it more than the last one. Do you guys have anything against palm trees and/or funny hats? I hope not. :(

JR, are you trying to intimidate voters? You should know that is illegal. You should also know it won't work. That is desperate.

Not just names, Mr. Smith, but actual signatures of actual registered voters that meet the criteria outlined and managed by the local election board. The only safe bet I see, is that these petitions WILL be challenged. In the past entire petitions have been voided, certain petitioners have had all of their collected signatures voided and individual names have been voided because the "names" dont pass the requirements.

Todd/JR - I think you accidentally just confirmed to everyone that JR and Todd are the same person. Thanks!

You comments regarding my identity, or JR identity are just like your other points, unsupported by any facts. They are just another example of your paranoid campaign to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. Hopefully some of these "feelings" you have are gas, and they will pass. I'd love to meet up with you and debate your mis rrepresentations more completely, but I dont discuss important business matters in a downtown bar, and when I showed up at all the public hearings on this matter no one resembling either Spencer was present to hear the principals speak about this project no "ask the tough questions". There are replays of the meeting that will be aired on Comcast for those who missed the meeting, but are still open to the facts of this project.

Todd/JR - I will be at Front Street Cantina in about 15 minutes for lunch. Feel free to chat me up over tacos.

Rose, signing a public petition is not voting (where privacy is guaranteed) so any argument here of voter intimidation is not relevant. Publicly disseminating public information should be encouraged, business owners and village residents want to and have a right to know this information. I would suggest if you want to remain anonymous, do not sign your name to a public document. If you desire to sign it then you should be proud to attach your name to something that punishes all local businesses, hurts local sports teams that want to play in Lemont and denies the village an opportunity to develop the downtown area.

Todd/JR - I'm sorry I did not see you at cantina. Lunch was delicious.

Your argument that people are punishing local businesses falls apart when one mentions the scheduling of this announcement. Local government should have announced this project in 2012 in order to allow it to go to referendum. They didn't so now the petition to have a referendum is the only recourse. The petitioners would not have had to resort to this if local government had not pushed this through on the schedule they did.

Please stop trying to intimidate people with public shaming. Local businesses are not interested in this and neither is anyone else. Your threats are foolhardy and do not make logistic sense anyway.

Don't be ashamed Spencer be proud. If you are ashamed then don't sign it. Residents FOIA and publicly release information all the time. How is letting the village residents and business owners know important publicly available information intimidation? If that is the case then no one should be allowed to FOIA and release public information. Not very democratic of you to try to deny my rights as a citizen in the village. I believe both the Patch and the Reporter should publish this information as do others and we will be contacting both news sources to do this when the information is available.

Ashamed? Do I look like I'm hiding behind an anonymous pseudonym? That's my real and full name. That's a real picture of me taken recently. I live right downtown. It would NOT be hard to track me down if one really wanted to.

I stand up for myself and others with a real name and picture, because I am PROUD to do so.

You have said you are going to compile information on everyone who signs and then match it up with head shots you intend to take. Followed up by what? Passing it out to all the local businesses? You don't think that's a little creepy to even say, let alone do? Do you think that any local business will take you seriously and/or turn away business based on a blacklist you created? Seriously?

No one is saying you can't exercise your rights, but there is also something known as good taste and you sir, are not exhibiting even a touch of that.

I have posed this question to "Todd" as well, but why is this the first thing you have a history of commenting on in Patch? It's pretty easy to make the small leap that you have a personal interest in this project based on your lack of history in local affairs elsewhere.

Spencer, asking questions and getting a response is a two way street. I have asked you why you have lied so much in your posts here and you have not answered that question. Until you stop lying I don't feel the need to answer any of your questions. Are you PROUD of the lies that you have told here?

JR/Todd - I don't think anyone except for you would call me a liar for the questions I have asked, the answers I have offered, and the research I have done. you have hurt exactly zero of my feelings. Sorry.

Way to keep it civil though. There's nothing like a good old fashioned mudsling to take attention away from the real issue.

Spencer, here is what you don't get. You have lied in your comments, not once but multiple times. By "lying" you have stated things as factual and they are not. If you did that on purpose or not it is still a lie. So when your statements are proven to be lies the rest of what you say really doesn't matter. It might be true, it might not, your willingness to lie instead of sticking with facts calls into question everything else you say.

JR/Todd - Sorry, but to be called a liar by you is actually laughable at this point. Your character is out there for anyone to examine now. Again, you're your own worst enemy in your goal to have your own agenda pushed through. I'm looking forward to hearing the people speak with their referendum vote. If you were truly on the side of freedom, choice, and democracy, you would too.

JR.... I guess the question is what are the ACTUAL business owners doing to spark revenue on their own? Have they rehabbed their buildings, advertised, what?
As far as the publishing of the names.... REALLY? Kind of petty JR. Placing the blame on people who believe that it might not be a good idea to rush ahead without taking a vote on it. Maybe they would be the majority, maybe not. That's why we all vote, right?

Hi Todd,

I'm not ashamed of who I am. That's my full name. That's a real picture of me. I live downtown. It probably wouldn't be too hard to track me down. I don't hide behind initials and an anonymous presence.

Regarding the revenue calculations, I have already addressed this. There's no way to accurately assess or compare revenue projections since the study's numbers do not jibe with the announced size of the facility. Essentially, there is NO study available.

The Barrington Field House is rather similar in scope, size, and financials. If memory serves me correctly, it was a 28 million dollar facility. Here's a quote directly from the Crain's article - "The one non-ice facility, the Lake Barrington Field House—”the largest multi-sport and fitness complex in the Midwest,” according to its website—also is in foreclosure and has been taken over by a receiver after defaulting on $28.5 million in bonds sold in 2007, according to Wells Fargo Bank N.A., a trustee for bondholders."

I have gone back in the history of my comments on the Lemont Patch (all of which are available for public consumption by the way) and I can find no example where I use name-calling as a argumentative tactic. Of note, I have been on Patch for about as long as it has existed here in Lemont. Logic though? Tons of examples.

JR, you seem to be only looking at one side of the issue. You don't seem to consider that the project can fail and what effect that could have on Lemont and our taxes which are already too high. There is no way to accuratly estimate the revenue for this faciilty. You can only build it and hope for the best, which presents a considerable risk. Considering that the citizens of Lemont will have to shoulder this risk don't you think they should be able to vote on whether they want this project and the risk.

Great! It's nice that you are in support of this project! Let's put it to a referendum vote and let people make themselves heard in a realistic way as well!

The examples in that article are noteworthy not for taxpayer burden, but for the fact they failed. Most noteworthy and comparable of the bunch being the Lake Barrington Field House.

It's important to note that even by the mayor's own words is that if this project were to fail (not be profitable enough to pay off bonds), the taxpayers would, in fact, be on the hook for this debt.

Todd.... that is exactly what will happen if the Complex fails.... The taxpayers of Lemont are now on the hook for it. What part of that don't you get?

You realize if that site was owned by a Private Party, the cleanup would have been mandatory years ago. So I say..... How about we make them clean the site first on their dime. Then re-examine the possibilites. I would bet that other interested parties would then be available.

Thanks!

Too bad the original photo with the shot glass, and the guy with the Gilligan hat arent the same people.

Did you save off a copy of my picture from before Todd? Because when I changed my Patch profile picture, I deleted the old one and simply replaced it with this one. How is it you are running a comparison? You don't think the implication there is a little creepy?

Again, I do not hide behind an anonymous presence. That's my full name. That's my picture. If one was to frequent the downtown Lemont area with any frequency, it would not be long until you ran into me. I'm not ashamed of the things I say.

Spencer, thanks for doing the research and for commenting.

I'll second that. We need more people to look at this project objectivly and vote on whether the project should move forward.

You conveniently left out the next two paragraphs which read thusly:

"The Indoor Sports Complex, one of three distinct parts of the facility that opened in 2002 at Route 45 and Peterson Road, has been holding its own, but hasn't been making enough to cover the entire debt.

Since revenues have not been meeting expectations, the village has been subsidizing from its general fund, dropping reserves from $9.7 million to about $1.1 million, according to the Moody's review."

This was a couple of years ago. Since then besides their bond rating dropping and drawing from general funds that belong to the taxpayers to keep the facility operational, the town is now at a point where they have to raise taxes. Ouch.

Maybe they should have erred on the side of caution when doing their projections.

Whether any prediction as to whether this project is to be profitable or not, the fact remains that this a 21 million dollar project that was rushed through with very little voice given to the residents. Government works for us, not the other way around.

Fiscal responsibility from a democrat! Imagine that!

its right there spencer the indoor arena holds its own, but is unable to support the 2 "distinct other projects".

"Holds it own" is not the same as "able to make its bond payments with no subsidy from the town"

They rented out one failed project and still can't make their payments. Libertyville also does not have to give another agency 25% of the profits off the top. ADDITIONALLY, they have had 10 YEARS to build their business up. Ten years and they still can't pay their bond debt!

They're about to raise taxes in the town because they have DEPLETED the general fund. It went from NINE million to ONE million and is now in all likelihood, gone.

Mayor Reaves has said himself that the taxpayers WOULD be on the hook for this if bond payments could not be met with profits. I'm not sure this is the time to take a risk like that and I'm not sure any residents are OK with that possibility (even if it were remote) either.

Referendum vote. Then we can let the citizens have a voice.

You might want to find a different article link to focus on, because this one hurts your cause more than helps it. Just FYI.

That's exactly why this should be a private business venture, not a local government project.

It's interesting that Todd/JR deletes his comments once it becomes inconveniently clear that they may have misspoke.

If I was an admin on this site, I would be checking IPs to see if their subnets matched any known government ranges.

Easy on the conspiracy theories Spencer, I haven't deleted anything, I just don't waste my whole day rambling on the Patch. Whatever computer dork mumbo jumbo you said in your second sentence does not apply, sorry. Funny how you disregard facts about differences in these facilities and refuse to consider that there are many successful similar local facilities. Gotta run and get to the train station, see ya!

JR - Just so you know, anyone that has either signed up for updates on this article or has submitted a comment saw your previous comment that you then deleted. I noticed this as a tactic "Todd" used on previous articles with this subject, because when you delete the parent comment, all child comments get deleted with it. It's devious, but obvious to anyone paying attention. Between your writing style, antagonistic tone, tactics, stubbornness, insulting nature, and the lack of any activity on any other subject for either one of you on Patch prior to this, it has become obvious to me that Todd and JR are one in the same person.

Again, you conveniently left out the part where even though they shuttered one unprofitable section and rented out the other (while continuing to try to sell them unsucessfully), the town still subsidizes them to the tune of 350k/year. It's operating at a profit, but not enough profit to cover its bonds.

Did not leave out any part. I only referenced the parts that were germain to this discussion, an indoor sports complex. It's doing rather well. I have provided several references to the failed Golf Academy and the Failed Family Fun Center. I posted the link that tells the whole story of whats working for them and what isnt' Even you article states that the Indoor arena project is working. The 2 "distinct other projects" arent. Your 3 year old article states the same

Desperation is a stinky musk Todd/JR.

While it seems that both Todd/JR & Spencer have a long history together it does not help either cause to have a back and forth conversation in this forum. Instead, I believe we should be posting where we can sign a petition (if that is what you want) and move on. Todd, everyone knows you are for the project, we get it. Please don't waste your time or our time by posting articles and quotes. We saw the meeting, we got the information. Again, to get to a referendum we need signatures and we would like to know where those petitions are. Any useful information on that? If the project goes forward, Todd/JR you can be so proud and when it fails, you can eat crow.

Again, while the sports complex portion of the Libertyville facility HAS been profitable, it still has not been enough to avoid subsidies from the town even though it has lowered from 500k to 350k (over a 10 year period which is also not insubstantial, given the amount of bled while building up the business). Don't forget the 25% right off the top of that revenue stream that goes directly to MWRD either.

Are you suggesting the Lemont Raiders are going to give their entire operating fund of 160k/yr directly to this facility? I'm not sure if you know how traveling teams work, but they do not stay stationary. That's why they're called traveling teams. Perhaps they will use the facility and will generate some revenue. That's great. However, Cog Hill loses in this situation unfortunately. Most would be against public ventures directly competing with a private one.

It must be further noted and stressed that Mayor Reaves has said himself that if the facility does not meet profitability projections, taxpayers WILL be on the hook for bond payments.

If taxpayer money is to be potentially used, I think they have the right to vote on it. You are free to vote for it, of course. I am not sure if I would vote for or against it at this time. I have not seen much concrete evidence that the town could support a facility of this kind. It grieves me that such a project would be undertaken while our junior high school is left in shambles.

Thank you Linda.

Sue, the bond sale would be on hold if enough signatures are gathered. The project would have to wait until the outcome of the referendum.

Fortunately, small town government has measures that are called referendum votes that give people from said small towns a voice in how their town's resources are used.

So now you want to faithfully follow the results of a referendum? You have previously stated, on more than one forum, that these funds should go to the "embarrasing state of the Junior High School. Wouldn't that be subverting the 113A referendum where voters agreed not to increase the 113A tax levy? You've also proposed taking VOL funds and transfer them to 113A, which is not feasible, not legal and would certainly subvert multiple referendums already held. So much for your referendum purity pledge.

I've never said any of those things. However, I do agree that it is embarrassing that we let our junior high fall to shambles that teaches our home town children while we build a 21 million dollar sports monstrosity for other people's kids.

AT NO TIME, have I ever stated that this money should simply be used on the junior high. My comments on anything I have had an opinion on are freely available for anyone to read. What you are saying is simply an untruth or (perhaps more likely) you misunderstood the manner in which I communicated.

yes, you have and you have had more than 1 person advise you that it is not feasible and not legal. But then again come your conspiracy theories that there is only 1 person disputes your "facts", or disagrees with your mis statements and directed quotes. I am still waiting for any shred of evidence that a Municipal Funded, municipal managed Indoor Sports Complex has failed to meet its projections and pay its bonds. For all the gunk you've thrown at the wall to continue your campaign of fear, uncertainty and doubt, you have yet to produce 1 credible example of an identical project that has failed, yet you've gone to great lengths to claim details as fine as the concessions income are questionable. You have questioned this project in light of the Junior High School situation, the aesthetics (or lack thereof) of the canal you live next to, the success or lack thereof of private underfunded ventures.
I am for the Sports project for basic reasons. This is the ONLY project of its size and scope the village has proposed in the 20 years I have lived here. It is the only project that would remediate one of the areas most polluted parcels. It is the only Village project that presents any kind of real improvement in the downtown area. The past projects of cobblestone walks, fancy lights, and limestone planters are attractive, yet have failed to produce any kind of improvements to the businesses that would provide services to US.
So much for the slower and smaller is better argument.

odd/JR - Unfortunately, you seem to be unable to come back with any direct quotes of mine explicitly stating as such. Want to know why? Because they don't exist.

At any rate, I'm not truly opposed to this project. I just think we should not be jumping into a 21 million dollar venture without VERY careful planning as well as input from the citizens as they are the ones who are truly carrying the risk.

Here's my exact quote, where I began by agreeing with a point you made.

I can't see myself objecting to any single one of the examples you named Todd. However, I can't help but to wonder why a complex like this is being built, when there is one in Homer Glen that sits mostly empty, with the taxpayers holding the bag.

Then there's the fact that Lemont (and especially downtown Lemont) is just plain inconvenient and confusing to navigate for people not from town. If this facility is able to draw people in, good luck to them in getting here and dealing with Main Street traffic. It's been said that the police will help handle traffic. That's great. Who's covering that cost?

I've read that the board and mayor had "studies done" on the viability of such a facility. Were the same studies done in Homer Glen? I'd like for one of these studies to be made publicly available for scrutiny.

This facility's bonds are to be covered by the projected profitability of said facility. What if it fails? 21 million dollars is a huge sum of money that could have gone to education or just simple beautification of the downtown area. Won't anyone be ashamed of the spectacularly awful state of the canal when all these people roll into town?

This objection to how the money was being used was not in any direct sense that this 21 million dollars specifically should be used for education or beautification, but in the general sense that if we have 21 million dollars to throw at a sports complex for out of towners, why can't we spend money on our own people and children as well?

As I suspected/predicted, you simply did not understand my means of communication.

Of note is that you replied to this comment in an attempt to minimize how much it would cost to have other public services support this project once it is completed. Your exact words were that it would only cost "a few grand."

You deleted that response within minutes of posting it.

Its all right there Spencer. You want to compare this project to a PRIVATE facility. A project that was doomed before it opened when the private party kited checks on the construction firms, and was indicted. This is not a municipal project, never was and was not bailed out by the taxpayers. A big difference. Homer Glen privately owned facility is not tax exempt, therefore significantly HIGHER expenses, as well as higher insurance rates. As a private entity it's books are not open for your inspection. What do you base your opinion on, when the private entity does not share it's records? It's this reckless mis representation of information that I seek to correct. Still waiting for public data on a municipal funded and operated Indoor Sports Arena that failed to meet its projections. You still haven't produced that. YOu school and canal comments speak for themselves. Without this kind of municipal project your canal and your registered brownfield site, which you live right between, will remain as is for another 20 years

I've compared this project to SEVERAL other projects. None are exactly the same, because that just is not possible. In fact, WE still don't know the scope of our project since the plans that were published do not match the plans that were announced. One can infer what they wish from that, but to me, it seems sketchy.

If local government wants to get involved in risk-based ventures that could affect citizens tax rate, then the citizens should have a voice. Why are you so against the democratic process?

The only comparison I was going for in regards to the Homer Glen complex is that it is underutilized. There may have been some shenanigans that occurred while it was being built, but it also certainly doesn't help that it sits empty a lot of the time. What I find noteworthy about that is that it is not inconveniently located (ours would be) and it's an affluent area surrounded by other affluent/family-oriented areas.

These are pretty basic concepts. I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend unless this whole argument is just away to promote your own agenda/business/aspirations.

Did not Spencer, the correct answer to your question of Village department support is contained within the feasibility study.
I will also note for all of your "asking tough questions", you still haven't asked the questions. I have attended both public hearings on this matter and did not notice the Shotglass wielding Spencer, nor the Gilligan hat wearing Spencer in attendance to even hear a response, let alone ask the "tough questions". Your statements promoting fear, uncertainty and doubt are statements with a question mark at the end. A tough question is one posed to someone that is in a position to answer it. What will it take for you to admit you've NEVER spoken to a principal in this project let alone "ask a tough question".

once again incorrect Spencer. The feasibility study includes many similar projects. Remove the ones that say private ownership and look aat the ones that are municipal projects. What's of note is that Lemont's project would be the only one with indoor, and outdoor facilities operated by the same management team.

What will it take? Oh, I don't know. Maybe just asking me.

I have not gone to one of these town hall meetings. That does not mean I am not allowed to speak my mind in a public forum about it, no matter how much you might want to silence me. The same first amendment rights that protect you, protect me as well.

You can call my comments what you like Todd/JR, but really all I would like to see is the people being allowed to vote on this as they should have been allowed to from the very beginning, considering that Mayor Reaves himself has stated they do, in fact, carry the risk on this project.

As far as your "did not" in regards to your deleted reply? You could not have answered me with a more juvenile response. Again, you realize that people saw your response in their email right? Perhaps you just do not remember.

That's great to hear Todd! How about now that you've allayed all of our financial fears, we put it to a vote. You've made an outstanding, non-antagonistic, mature case for yourself and the project.

How did you get Homer SportsPlex to open their books to you? Any reference to what is going on there is complete speculation. Any reference that taxpayer money was used there is complete fabrication.

You're right. I don't have access to their financials. Have you ever drove past it though or gone inside? You can hear crickets.

Pure speculation, unsupported by any facts, but presented as fact.

Spencer it is getting embarrassing how many misstatements and lies you are posting here. Homer Glen facility was not taxpayer funded and taxpayers are not holding the bag. For most visitors it will be more convenient to get to from a facility in Lemont, with an exit from 355 approx. 5 minutes from the facility, what interstates are that close to the Homer Glen facility? Did you ever think that the Homer Glen facility may be underutilized because a) it is a dump and b) it is a different type of complex than the proposed Lemont facility, I have been there recently, have you? In terms of not spending money on our own children did you not hear that the Lemont Raiders as well as other Lemont based teams are planning on using this facility. The reason the village can get these bonds is due to the revenue projections so there is not $21 mil just sitting around that could be used to beautify downtown, clean up the canal or spend on the schools. I don't believe anyone has said you can't make comments here, however if you continue to make stunningly incorrect statements here then you should be prepared to have those comments be challenged. I have not deleted a single comment I have made and I am not Todd.

There's something stunning all right, I agree.

"I Am Not Todd" would make a good name for a band, JR/Todd. Thanks.

Are you serious? This is your best defense to all the lies you have been stating here? The Spencer embarrassment continues.

That is not the best response I could come up with, but it is the response you deserve.

Good day! Off to Cantina for lunch tacos!

That defense of your lies is worse than your first one. Go easy on the shots at Front Street Spence!

I will! Thanks for the advice JR/Todd!

Mr. Smith, Dont mistake the gossip amongst the neighbors, as we are doing here, as asking tough questions. Don't mistake bar room conversation, as you have invited, as asking tough questions either. Asking tough questions about civic projects would involve addressing your "questions" to those that can answer them in a bussiness like fashion and forum. The Village has hosted 2 such events, at their locations and at theiir times. All members of the village board have offered to attend neighborhood coffees, local organization meetings and even personal audiences to address any questions in an official and business like forum. Its hard to claim your "asking tough questions" stance when you clearly have not engaged that process. I find it difficult to fathom that our elected officials would or should be expected to crawl the pubs of the village looking for someone that looks like either of your profile pictures in order to answer the "tough questions" that you have not even posed to them.

No one is running against them, that is the problem. They get voted in either way!

There are plenty of good burgers to be had in Lemont (Nick's, Taphouse, IBG), so no thanks. That interesting that you go to Culvers in Darien so regularly that you know their business patterns. Do you think perhaps it being located in a high-traffic, high population density might help a bit as well? If I had to guess, I'd say Culver's didn't chose to franchise there without significant research on the local traffic and demographic patterns.

Spencer, we can see that you use facts in your opinion and arguments. It would just be easier to ignore Todd/JR as the back and forth is going no where and and he cannot seem to control himself. Please be the 'bigger' person and ignore his statements or replies. No one is reading either one because it has become too personal. As Linda suggested, non-personal suggestions or questions only.
Thank You Spencer for your comments and I hope that this will keep us going in the right direction.

Oh I already have Ginger, no worries. I stopped by Hank's house today to sign the petition too!

Your comments, slander, and threats make you your own worse enemy Todd/JR. If I were someone with the government who was truly looking to make this project happen, I'd be sending you a private message imploring all of your identities to keep a lid on it.

You're doing more harm to your agenda than good. Good luck with that!

Typical response Spencer, If you cant disprove the message, attack the messenger! If my restaurant critiques are slander a whole industry of restaurant critics would be jailed.

Nicks and BIG is not an establishment that I would want to take a child to eat. May be fine for an adult but this is no place for children. H&H, Lemon Tree, McDonalds, Burger King, but thee are on the far south of town.

Why are IBG and Nick's not suitable for children? Because they serve alcohol? So does every non-fast food establishment in town. Heck, even Sweetwater does.

So Todd.... State what your needs are? I see you want burgers... plenty to go around in town. Stop being vague on you arguments and state the real reason. Plenty of businesses have opened and closed that have met the needs of the people and still closed their doors. There are far too many variables to state that this $21 million project will actually help the community. I also ask what the village will do to the downtown area restoration. I think we can all agree the the roads need to be upgraded.... more people means more traffic. More traffic means more maintenance work to be done. Who is picking ujp that bill?

Agreed Keith. Stephen & Main will really be the only crossroads into this facility. It's not the friendliest of intersections. If one is on Stephen (with Budnik's to one's right), if you are at the stop line, you can't see the streetlights. Not to mention the roads themselves are already not doing well. Also, what happens if traffic backs up past the stop sign by Muffins all the way up the hill? What if there's a long, slow freight train?

Downtown Lemont has long been a victim of its own location. It is inconvenient and difficult to navigate for those of us in town. For out-of-towners, it will be worse.

During the summer months, I hope all of our visitors aren't put off too badly by the horrendous smell and look of the canal either. It doesn't smell natural that's for sure. It smells like a place where local animals go to die and rot.

Oh Todd/JR - Let's not play coy little games. I just summed it up for you in my above reply. I also invited you (both) to meet me for lunch just earlier today at another of our local businesses, Front Street Cantina.

If you put no credence in a public forum such as this, why are you even bothering to take part? Oh that's right, neither of you have taken part in any other public discussion until this project, which I find odd and more than a little disingenuous.

Good to hear Todd. Obviously, we all know how you're voting on the referendum. Myself? I haven't made a decision yet. I'd like to see more research done as well as a true prospectus be publicly made available.

Is there some way they can be marked as inappropriate?

Which is wrong then? The prospectus or Mayor Reaves?

Oh. It sounds like you win then. Kudos.

It was great to meet you Hank.

The feasability study paid for by the village indicates a more than $1.6 operating cost per annum, just to keep the doors open. Then profits to then MWRD, and finally to pay off the borrowed debt. It is a 30 year bond as far as I know. But not to worry. If they can't make the nut, they just take it from our sales and income tax revenue. Pretty sure[payoff. Sounds like a good investment 'cause in the end, at least the Lemont suckers will have to pay off.

I'm not interested in the financial representatives comments. Lets see a copy of the actual study. You didn't answer my statement about the annual cost, and as I have been reading you are just skirting around the questions. Actually, what is your position within the village since you seem to be the one stating everyone is wrong. Lets have a straight answer. My position is a senior Lemont citizen born and raised in Lemont.

Since there hasn't been any official documentation posted that matches what has been said of the project, there is very little choice but to question both. So far it seems you would have us believe that someone on behalf of the board/mayor saying "Don't worry, it's cool." should be enough for us all to accept.

I reject that and am asking for data based on the proposed project.

If that analysis seems reasonable and errs on the side of FISCAL CAUTION rather than BEST CASE SCENARIO, then if this were to go to referendum, I would be in favor of it.

Hi Hank,
A suggestion since this article is no longer posted on the front page, I am thinking many people will not see this post. May I suggest you include this information on the other article like the mayor report that is still on the front page. This way more people will see it. Just a thought.

Lemont Old Timer....what is YOUR address? What is your name? I posted my name and phone # and have met many nice fellow Lemonters who have signed the petition ...Nice to meet you all especially Victor and Spencer, both of whom used their real names and called before coming......Not so much with you...with you I smell a rat......btw Lemont Old Timer

12:30 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Ann Paul,
why do I get the feeling you are really JANET HUGHES ?????
Janet is a friend of mine and she is not posting on this site under any fake names...unlike you.....But, you've got my number feel free to call...I've got a petition to sign.

None of the above...TRUTH....Notice how all "Lemont Old Timer" is now magically paul,,,,,now "todd" who are you?

Ginger1397...Ann is correct my phone # is 630-243-9693....please call and I will arrange for a good time to come to you.