In reference to the last question and answer.... So as I see it the Board pushed through the proposal, knowing all well that the Residents of Lemont would not have enough time to petition a referundum in April. Weren't they hoping to have the 1st phase of the project done by Fall of 2013? Looking more devious every question and answer by the mayor and board.

It is disturbing to see the mayor and village board commit the town to a risky multimillion dollar project without having the people of Lemont vote at a referendum.

People of Lemont: if you are not outraged by this, then you are not paying attention.
We need to have a referendum on this project so the people of Lemont can have their say. People, please petition the mayor so you can have a choice in what happens in this village. We have men and women in our military who are risking their lives so that we can have the “freedom to choose” in America. Don’t let that go to waste. Don’t give up your right to choose. Let’s all petition city hall for a referendum. Let’s all call the mayor’s office to let him know how we feel. Let’s all write our opinions in editorial columns so the mayor and the whole town can see that we want the freedom to choose what happens in our village.

If you can’t do that now then you have no right to complain if this project fails and the taxpayers have to pay for it.

Its the peoples town and the peoples money. They should have a right to choose.

A referendum is the right thing to do.

Sham sham sham! People of lemont beware!!
Cause we pay pay pay

I think its a great project....But here come the nay sayers: 'No Jewel', 'No Target', 'No Aldi'....Hmmm they seem to be doing just fine.

People of Lemont... Be ahead of the game.. Quit being the stagnet town... The right people are there to get the job done right... Do it... Ultimately it's an advantage to spend that kind of money to get that kind of facility... And yet no increases in your taxes... If you want your taxes to go down... You get the complex up... The people there... Then buisnesses will be dying to get into the loop... That's tax dollars!!!! That's what brings your taxes down ... Like the old saying goes... You have to spend it... To get it back!!!

Great plan for Lemont, way to go Mayor Reaves and Village Board!!!! This is exactly what the Village needs. Pay no attention to the typical Lemont do nothing, complain about everything wackos. The 3 or 4 of them against this are far outweighed by those who know this is a great opportunity for the Village.

More visitors to Lemont means more revenue for the Village and all local businesses and no increase in taxes. No one who is against this has offered any viable alternatives with the same upside as this.

What I don't get is why residents of LaGrange and Woodridge are making pointless comments about this story. This project doesn't effect them, no upside or downside for them. Complainers being complainers I guess. It is similar to an outside group like americans for prosperity arguing that the cuts in our schools and the huge class sizes would be good for the Village. What has americans for propserity done to help our public schools since then????

Ann Paul, That's interesting to hear that Lemont would give up 25% of the revenue to the MWRD. Somehow the Mayor overlooked mentioning that detail. That alone would make it much more difficult for the project to pay for itself.

Mayor Reaves, we need full disclosure of all the facts. Please don't leave out important facts in an effort to sugar coat this. Please lay out ALL THE FACTS for Lemont to see and then give them an opportunity to vote on the project via referendum.

Mayor Reaves, with so little time left, it should be your responsibility to set this up for a referendum vote. Don't make it someone elses responsibility to get signatures on a petition. That just raises suspicions about the project and deprives the people of Lemont from having any say on what is right for the village.

We deserve better than development of a plan of this magnitude in secret, don't you think? Next, seriously consider a plan to restore the Village's faith and trust in their Mayor and Board. Thanks.

The seed for this project had been planted for awhile. Why is the integrity of the Village ( board) always used as an excuse to shoot down a plan (referendum)? Hmmm...I see a pattern... the town (kids) suffer. You are entitled to your opinon and whatever helps you sleep at night in justifying the town's (schools) stagnance.

Does anyone know if a referendum petition can be assembled electronically?

If not what else can be done to stop the village board from proceeding with this project?

Why are you asking here? Call the Village Hall and get official answers to both the sports complex and the petition questions from the people you are paying "all those taxes to"! Isnt that what they are there for?
One thing for sure, if petitions are submitted someone is going to challenge every petitioner and signer....you want to get it right dont you?
This is a bad place for information! Even the article by Linda is loaded with errors and ommisions of the 90 minute meeting. For instance the verbal, written and diagram information has event traffic on Stephen St., not Industrial drive... They are consider construction traffic and possible future alternate access on Industrial drive to Cico Rd.
Go to the source, I urge you all....

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I agree with April. This town needs an investment to grow and attract residents, visitors, and businesses. How many more empty buildings does there need to be before people are convinced that our community needs a spark? This could be it, I think it's worth a shot. Thanks to Lemont leaders for thinking outside the box.

I find it questionable that this was pushed through on the schedule it's currently on. If the mayor and board were completely on the up and up, this would be put to a referendum vote. This is no small investment here. It's a large, pricey pill to swallow and given that the surrounding communities have not had the greatest of luck with their sports megaplexes, I feel like there may be something fishy afoot.

At any rate, if it does go through, I really truly hope it succeeds. Though, as a resident in the downtown area, I also really hope it brings less litter and disrespectful non-residents than the car show to the area.

Spencer - your comments directly question the character of our mayor and village trustees, whom I know to be people of integrity. Please consider what you say before you post. Unlike many of the other posters on this thread, the mayor and trustees are real people, with real reputations who invest their personal time to serve our city. Before you - or anyone - posts another word implying something fishy is afoot, please put yourself in their shoes and ask if a stranger said that about you, would you think it fair?

Please get the facts, and if you have legitimate reason for questioning the ethics of these folks, please share. Perhaps you did not intend your comments to come across in the manner they did. Never to late to apologize if that's the case.

Spencer,I think Ive seen you comment before that you were fairly new to this village..I moved here about 20 years ago. Some people fight everything around here. I recall a very vocal group against putting in sidewalks on McCarthy road because "we lived here since 1960 and never needed them", dont do anything about State St. traffic you'll ruin the "rural look" of the town even though it took you 30 minutes to go from 127 street to Illinois in the morning and reverse at night, with traffic cones making reversible lanes, then Chipains was going to ruin the town, then Jewel, then Kohls and Target , then the Core....then Front St. Lofts....Their may have been a hiccup or two along the road of life, but no defaults, no referendums for tax increase (village) no epic failures...I urge you to speak to them directly about your concerns, I find them quite approachable. I find it one of the benefits of small town life.

Tell me about the shame of the canal, you live there not me.

Spencer,
These people are running unopposed, AGAIN. There are also several other government board positions that remain unfilled. Why would anyone want to take these VOLUNTEER positions and suffer your vitriol? Sorry you claim to have had bad experiences with other politicians, but one of the major injustices you can suffer upon a person is to force them to carry the scorn you have for others.
AS far as im concerned your an axe murdering pedophile and I have just as much proof against you as you do against these guys, my own "feelings" about the way I think you conduct yourself. Now its up to you to redeem yourself.
This is not Chicago with 6 figure salaries and huge war chests to suffer your feelings, these are VOLUNTEERS.
You are not in Chicago anymore

Asking tough questions to politicians is not vitriol Todd. Again, if they did not want to be held to public scrutiny, there are plenty of volunteer opportunities outside of the public eye.

I find it odd that you accuse me of vitriol because I have questions, and then amusingly so and perhaps in sarcastic jest, spout vitriol.

Questions SHOULD be asked of politicians. It is part of their JOB, volunteer or otherwise.

Of note, the Mayor of Lemont is a paid position.

Spencer,
You may wish to know that Glen Sportsplex was built by a private developer. It was not built as a civic project, it was built by a private party named Michael Kaup. Do your own research before your crucify others

There are several examples stated in this article of similar facilities, funded by bonds, that failed, and then went into foreclosure and were sold for a fraction of what it cost to build them. Who was left covering the difference?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130126/ISSUE01/301269974/suburban-ice-rink-finances-are-slip-sliding-away

Something does not feel right. The Patch does a good job with a short story on this complex and Social Media blows up with angry people screaming "fraud" because residents were not properly notified this was happening. I read the Lemont Reporter and the Patch and do not recall hearing about this but I may have missed it. Next we have a "town hall meeting" without formal notice (again, unless I missed it) but the meeting takes place on a weekday morning, when most people work. Then, in 4 days, with no formal notice again (unless I missed it) people can come and voice their opinion about this project at a village meeting. I can hear Ron Stapleton already saying "But people, we had a town hall and a meeting to discuss and you did not come" Much smaller projects have historically had much more press and due process. Why the hush hush? I I think we need to vote and then need to know who will get the contracts and how. Who will benefit? I would like to serve on the bid committee if there is one. I will not let good, tax paying residents feel like I do about this project right now if it passes. I believe this is legitimate and should happen if a majority of the community / tax paying residents have a chance to say they want this. I will support it only after material facts are out there for all to see and we make sure no "friends of the village" receive any part of the $21M improperly. If I can volunteer to sit on a committee to help keep the process clean, I am ready to do so.

Thanks Todd.... I am more than familiar with the process and plan to.... I am no stranger in those halls.

Take spencer with you, he has a few questions hes afraid to ask

Again I ask why start with the taj mahal of sports facilities? Can't you build a smaller facility to start with room for expansion? Seems way to risky to go "all in" with a fast tracked $21 million facility.
And Forget the debate of how many this facility will draw. Whether it draws 600,000 or 100,000- what is the break even point in terms of fees generated by facility rentals? What are the anticipated annual rental/usage fees?

Whether the sports facility is viable or not does not matter.If private enterprise wishes to build a sports complex- great ! The project is outside the purview of government -in my opinion .

Kevin Cliff

May I suggest....quit squabling and look at some numbers...a 21 mil loan at 3% would mean our cost of money for 30 years is $120,000 per month (rounded) and, about 1.5 million a year or just about $4,000 a day in cost of money. What we do not know is what is the probable income projected and what are the probable operating costs. Lets *guess* it will cost as much to operate as is the mortgage...we need to gross about $8,000 a day to make it. That brings us in at about 3 mil gross. If you think those kinds of numbers are doable...you should not be opposed to this project. I don't have all the *real* numbers but the Village likely does. Get them and review before bitching. Get rid of the emotion and consentrate on the numbers then take a position.

Todd...all you and everybody else needs to do is go to the Village web site where you will find ALL THE DETAIL YOU WANT!

All the NUMBERS are there for your review. When you look at income and expense you won't find the 21 million bond/interest/ amortization costs but it is accounted for in the EBIDTA and to me at least, it looks like the project makes about $100,000 a year....plus other bennies for the businesses of Lemont. I hoped to get someone with better money handling experience...like maybe a CPA to come to and state a financial conclusion. Since there were no takers...I just did it for you.

Kevin Cliff, Thanks for your comments. I agree that this project should not even be considered by the village because it is a "for profit" business that will cater to people who are outside of Lemont. This is a private enterprise which should be beyond the purview of the village government. Their job is to handle public matters. They should not be engaging in private enterprise. Speaking of which, can anyone tell me why the village spent millions of the taxpayers dollars to buy real estate at Archer and Main St? I have asked the village and received no answer.

Previous patch and reporter articles have outlined that the village purchased several parcels of property at distressed sales in order to combine them into a parcel that developers would find attractive. These articles were in the summer. During the meeting the mayor stated that a private party did the due diligence to put, a sports complex on that site but found the cook county tax structure and private insurance to be cost prohibitive, then the VOL considered the data for the MWRD site, which has been in the VOL comprehensive plan since at least 2006 as a recreation site. He also stated that there are hotels interested in that site. I do not wish to appear antagonistic as some may put but I keep referring back to VOL because the data is there, albeit not necessarily in one place.
These details were mentioned at the meeting, but the press is unable to capture every detail of a 2 hour meeting

VOL posted marketing and feasibility study last night or today. Heres a link to 36 pages of details invcluding financials

http://www.lemont.il.us/DocumentCenter/View/686

You are right to ask the village for a cost/benefit analysis of this project. Having analyzed these projects in the past, some of the numbers from the Village appear to overly optimistic. If you look at the numbers based on Industry standards, the estimate of 133% debt coverage assumes some very high utilization rates compared to other facilities in the area and nationally. Assuming moderately lower rates leads to losses on the project, which does come back to the taxpayer. And this assumes that the Village pays nothing for the lease. You should ask for details on the lease- the village is spending $21 million in improvements on land it doesn’t own. Maybe the project makes sense for Lemont, maybe it doesn’t – but with a project of this magnitude and risk, that should be up to the village to decide – or at a minimum, shown a more thoughtful analysis.

I hope the town can come to a fast conclusion. Stop dilly-dallying with the naysayers and build it already.. I am glad to be here in Lemont. Good LUCK!

hh

wow! I propose we go back to riding horses and perhaps burning fires for light in the evenings. If it was up to you people we would still be wiping ourselves with corn husks....I am so bored here!!!!! Lets do something big!!!!

The estimate of $10mill-$20mill of additional spending in the village seems incredibly optimistic. The majority of traffic in this type of facility is stop ’n drop carpools. There will be people staying longer on week-ends, but the $10 mill - $20 mill number is not realistic. These type of numbers are for facilities that run huge tournaments and get people that come in in from out of town and stay at hotels in the area. This facility doesn’t have the critical mass in any area to host this type of event, except maybe volleyball with 5 courts. Two, or even 4, outdoor fields aren’t enough to compete with some of the large outdoor complexes in the area. Two indoor basketball courts is not enough for a tournament, and four indoor fields is enough, but is not any different than the capacity of McCook or Players already in the area.

Great question to pose at Monday night's meeting! Monday morning the village advised that this facility is the 2nd largest in the state and the only one one with indoor and outdoor facilities. They also advised that hotels have already expressed interest in building at the village owned sites at Rt 83 and Main St. You have good questions that can best be answered by the village. The meeting last Monday ran over 2 hours and is difficult or impossible to capture every word in print article. The night meeting will also be broadcast on channel 6 and replayed as all board meetings are

Ron
To much Todd. He sounds like the exclusive promotional agent for the sports complex. Lets settle the debate with us residents deciding this issue by voting in a referendum. We are going to be holding the mortgage on this project. Please, lets have representation on this very expensive legislation.

Agreed Ron. I have suspected Todd is directly involved with this project or is related to someone who is for several days now. He defends every aspect of this project blindly with actual antagonism towards anyone who questions it any way.

I can't make the meeting but I believe all we need to do is interview the trustees in Libertyville, IL and hear how their successful sports complex is sucking their residents dry with new taxes to cover the complex's financial shortfalls. Google it for yourself. There are articles from 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and so on.....

From the 2009 article "With an estimated 1.2 million visitors a year, it's not as if the Libertyville Sports Complex has been a ghost town. Some 1,000 athletes and their families are at the indoor sports complex this weekend for an international basketball tournament. But the 168,000-square-foot building is only part of the complex at Peterson Road and Route 45. Since it opened in 2002, the traffic hasn't generated enough money for the center to cover its debt. Though not the only factor, the heavy shortfall is one key reason the Libertyville village board is in the last-resort position of having to raise taxes."

If we build it, will they come? We need to do our homework because an established facility in Libertyville is losing their backsides. What will we bring with our complex that will be different in order to pull a piece of their 1.2 million annual visitors to our area? Look at the other stories when you google it and see and tax increases Libertyville residents now are living through to keep their complex open since no one will buy it...... Again, let's look very closely before we jump in the dark here...

Hey Lil Buddy, You cleverly forgot to mention, again, that the financials of the indoor sports arena have always been on target. Libertyville has 2 other "distinct projects" as they call them, a Golf Learning Center and a Family fun center (pee wee golf) that are unproductive. The Indoor sports atrena funds are not able to cover a total of three projects, but the Indoor Arena is able to cover its own debt with its own revenue. Libertyville is attempting to sell their golf and fun center activities that have PROVEN unproductive. Theyare not selling their Indoor Sports Complex. We are not building any golf centers. Your article is 3 years old and advises the Indoor Sports Complex is viable. Here is an article from 11/29/2012 that further advises the Indoor Sports Complex revenues are now and have been financially self supporting. Here is the 2nd article stating that the Indoor Sports Compplex is profitable and Libertyville wants to keep it. They want to get rid of their unprofitable Golf Learning Center and their unprofitable pee wee golf center.
To date you have still been unable to produce ANY credible information of a Municipal Indoor Sports Arena that has not been self supporting. http://libertyville.suntimes.com/news/16641031-418/libertyville-sports-complex-revenue-drain-continues.html.

Do you actually believe there is only one person, under 2 names that support this project? I have no personal interest in this project, I have no personal or business relationship with any government official in any government body anywhere including but not limited to Lemont.
Perhaps you should lose the Gilligan hat! Ive compared your photo from yesterday (the one ndrinking from the shotglass) and todays photo and I have determined they are NOT the same person. Whats your role?

Yet another good article showing other Chicago communities struggles with proposed sports complexes. The multi-part article presents interesting, factual points that parallel our little project. Here is one quote from a rather critical review of McHenry County's research into one of these complexes in 2011.

One Quote - "A review of several other sport parks facilities in the Chicago area reveals that although they are located in markets of far greater population densities, the only one that appears to be running in the black is located in Barrington, one of the wealthiest communities in the nation." I love our community, and I am raising a family here proudly, but this community is not as financially "well off" as Barrington if this does not work.

I am not against the complex being built in our community. I am against bad decisions and we do not know enough to say this is a good one. Let's make sure a majority of the community has a vote. Lets try to build something that the Lemont financial infrastructure can support if it has to. Here is the link.

http://mchenrycountyblog.com/category/joseph-l-daleiden/

I urge the village or even the Lemont Patch to contact an expert like Joseph L. Daleiden to get his input and analysis of this project. I hope all posters read the articles and see what you think. Mr. Daleiden may save the project from the dust bin with insights we may have missed or he may show this is a bad idea. Less money well spent either way.

IL Lawmaker wants to ban anonymous comments from Internet-
The bill, called the Internet Posting Removal Act, is sponsored by Illinois state Sen. Ira Silverstein. It states that a “web site administrator upon request shall remove any comments posted on his or her web site by an anonymous poster unless the anonymous poster agrees to attach his or her name to the post and confirms that his or her IP address, legal name, and home address are accurate.”

I would like to summarize what we know about the proposed sports complex and get back on track with the discussion that addresses it.
1) It is not really a “proposed” sports complex since the village trustees already decided that they are going ahead with the project.
2) The village trustees made the decision to NOT allow the citizens any input. The trustees had the choice of putting it to a referendum vote and decided not to do that. The reasons for this would make some interesting reading, to be sure. This alone demonstrates that the mayor and village trustees feel the citizens are irrelevant, which violates their fiduciary responsibilities to the village.
3) The project is to be built on a site that is contaminated with toxic chemicals.
4) Since the Mayor said the project is to break ground in March, which is only a few days away, that would mean that the village already knows who the contractors for the project will be. The village did not publish a “request for bids” in the paper so this appears to be a “no bid contract” that the village has awarded.
5) The Market and Impact Study is dated after the village trustees voted to issue bonds and proceed with the project.
continued on next comment

continued from previous comment dated 2-26-13 at 2:56 pm -------------
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6) The Market and Impact Study has a lot of income and expense figures which are all estimates. However it has no supporting documentation or even footnotes that explain where the figures came from. How reliable are the estimates?
7) Lemont has better locations available, i.e. Bambrick Park: 47 acres, 280 existing parking spaces, way easier to get to from the highway interchange, we already own it, we would not have to rent from someone else, it is a much more attractive property, no toxic waste to deal with, no worries about degrading Lemont’s infrastructure, easier to control traffic, will not congest existing traffic … what are the 3 most important things about property: location, location, location. So why shoehorn the sports complex under a bridge?
8) If the project fails financially, the citizens of Lemont will pay, Lemont’s credit rating will be damaged and Lemont’s ability to borrow money or issue future bonds will be negatively affected.
I could go on, but when you look at this it becomes obvious that something or a lot of things are wrong with the village trustees’ decision to build this project. That is why we need a referendum that allows time to further explore the particulars and let the citizens, voters and taxpayers decide whether this is a good project for Lemont.

I would also like to address the mayor and the village trustees. Ladies and gentlemen, please call for a referendum on the sportsplex. This is an opportunity for you to show the residents of Lemont that they matter. Forcing the petition to be compiled will send the opposite message. This town belongs to the citizens of Lemont. Everything you do should bear that in mind.