I am not one to comment on the Patch but I am so outraged by how these citizens getting their signatures I felt that I had to make a comment. My mom is older and lives in Lemont. She is very much in favor of the sports complex because she thinks that it will bring revenue to our town and because she hates driving all over to go and watch her grandchildren play sports. She was so excited to tell me that she had signed in favor of the sports complex only to find out that she had signed the petition against it. Since that time this group has gone after her 5 more times for her signature. It is to the point where she can't go to the Core without deaing with them. I was even more upset yesterday when I saw them going after older people in Jewel with a big clip board that read "Say no to a $21,000,000 debt. " I personally am in favor of the complex but I have no isses if our town wants to debate it. I do have issues with this group targeting older people and telling them lies or half truths. Shame on you "Let UsVote."

The problem here is that Mr. Ladas and Ms. Hughes do not put out all the information. They don't even get their facts straight. They are claiming that the Village will automatically go into debt in March 2013. That is absolutely not true! Debt financing is a long-term debt. I spelled this out clearly a previous post in which Mr. Ladas asked for everyones support.

The whole problem is Janet Hughes. She causes all of these problems (i.e. school board), gets her minions to do her dirty work and then sits back and sees what happens. She got slapped down when the Appellate Court denied to review the lower court's decision to throw out the law suit.

But I do see one problem with the petition. They are calling the Election the General Primary Election. It's not. It is a "CONSOLIDATED ELECTION."

I'm am just in much in favor of this proposal. It will generate jobs, help bring people into the Village of Lemont and help out the businesses in town. All that Ladas, Hughes and company are worried about is their own skin. They ruined the value of the real estate in Lemont, they are going to ruin the businesses in Lemont as well.

Dwayne,

Don't sign the petition. It is your right. It is Janet's, and anyone else for that matter, to start a petition. If the vote passes, yeah for you, If you feel it is such a good deal, it will pass. What's wrong with a referendum??? That way BOTH parties have their say. Don't bring personal issues into discussions. This should be about issues not people.

A couple of things. 1) If we put every issue to a referendum, nothing would ever get done. The current Mayor, Board and the Committees they appointed were elected to do a job. Based on the large amounts of research they have done, including opinions from independent consultants, in their mind they feel this project is in the best interest of the community. Let them do what they were elected to do. I would have loved to put ObamaCare to a referendum, but the people that were elected voted to pass it. I would have loved to have a referendum on illegal aliens getting driver's licenses in Illinois, but it passed (with the help of our State Senator - Lemont Resident.)

2) Whether you are for or against the project, the Press (and I use that term loosely here) should not be advocating, and basically advertising for people to come sign the petition. It's OK that they had their OpEd piece against the project, but they should not devote an entire article on the petition and highlighting those that are against the project. After it's all said and done, this will cost Lemont more money due to the delay in additional income to the town, as well as the time and effort to put this on a ballot and conduct the referendum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is simply a petition to put the project to a town vote, not a petition to cancel the project. If you're for it then you'll be able to vote that way. I really can't honestly believe that any resident doesn't want to see our town healthy and flourishing. I'm all for successful businesses, but it does make sense for such a large project to have full vetting by its owners. There's a lot of exposure here.

Somewhat related is the question- why did the village board recently deny a Cook County tax break to a logistics company who wants to build a new facility on east Main St.? When it comes to ideas for new revenues, this seems like a no-brainer. They're investing $3.1m on a new building in an area we want to improve and creating immediate jobs. No expense to us? Even at a discounted tax revenue, as opposed to none, isn't this a win-win?

Yes, Tim, you are right. The petition only means it will go up for referendum next year. There will be plenty of time between now and then to debate the issue and express your opinions. There were a great deal of questions asked of the village at the public hearing that have not been answered and the mayor said he wrote each question down. I find it disappointing that there has been radio silence on answers to these questions since the public hearing. Even our Lemont resident Christine Radogno needs more time like most of us to become better educated on this project and the ramifications since it is ultimately at the taxpayer risk. If this was in the making for some time, why was it not mentioned in the mayor's strategic planning message last year ? It wasn't. In fact, the Reporter chastized the mayor for not being strategic enough. At the public hearing, it was even said the lease hasn't been "finalized". If you want this to go through on blind faith, that is your perogative. I think taxpayers need more time to get answers to the many lingering questions. THey have been asked at the public hearing. Waiting for a response. Anyone? Anyone?

Ms. K
Just goes to show you should ALWAYS read what you sign! How do you think we ended up with "Obamacare"?

My complements to Jim Ladas, Hank Olenick and the many people who have given their time to preserve the rights of Lemont citizens. When it comes to a major project like a $21 million sports complex that the citizens of Lemont will likely never use, it makes sense to "measure twice and cut once" on the matter. Putting it on the fast track wihtout any voter input is the wrong thing to do. I encourage everyone to locate and sign this petition which will allow the towns people to review the facts and decide for themselves. This is our town. As citizens, taxpayers and voters we should be allowed to determine what we want for Lemont.

Quick and dirty numbers of this project
21 million over 30 years straight line principle equals $700k
Interest on the 21 million at 2.5% for the 1st year 525k
Total Debt Expenditure interest plus principle $1,225k
How this facility can make that much money is beyound me. In order to break even it needs to make 1,225k to service debt and interest. How this does not come back to the tax payer is crazy.
The reason the lender is willing to lend us the money is because thier is no risk involved if this facility can't make it debt payments then the tax payer is on the hook. Its a guareenteed loan.

Mayor Reeves or a trustee can you answer the question below?

Somewhat related is the question- why did the village board recently deny a Cook County tax break to a logistics company who wants to build a new facility on east Main St.? When it comes to ideas for new revenues, this seems like a no-brainer. They're investing $3.1m on a new building in an area we want to improve and creating immediate jobs. No expense to us? Even at a discounted tax revenue, as opposed to none, isn't this a win-win?

Ann Paul, there is some confusion.... this is not about Mary or our school referendum. The school referendum is over - get over it! I have no issues letting people debate or voice their opinions. I have friends that don't agree with my position on this or other topics. We debate them in a healthy and honest way. My issue is that my mom can not go to the Core or the store without dealing with these people. I am also disappointed that they are taking advantage of people like my mom. She didn't realize that by signing it she was pushing the project off for at least a year if not forever. I am not saying don't have the debates or the vote. I am just saying be honest about what you are doing and don't keep bothering our older people. It is hard enough to get them out in the winter let's not make them uncomfortable living in our town.

Mayor Reeves or any village trustee can you answer this question?

Why did the village board of trustees authorize and purchase several pieces of commercial property located at Archer and Main Street?

Mr. Landas, summed it all up with the following post yesterday

The Village Board and Mayor of Lemont are in fact responsible for the petition drive. They created a situation that gave anyone who might be unconvinced by their plan only one avenue of recourse, collecting enough voters’ signatures to put the issue on the ballot. They gave us only 30 days to do it. But we will do it.

In truth our group has no name, only a few slogans, and there are far more of us than 14. We are in every neighborhood and on every street corner. We are out in the cold and snow, not because we want to but because we have been forced to by our village government. We are doing it openly and proudly because it is our duty as citizens to protect our rights

Thank You Mr. Landas and Mr. Olenick

So the people circulating these petitions are lying and harassing people to get signatures, why doesn't this shock me. But according to Ginger, the people to blame are the people who have been duped into signing because in her words you should always read what you sign. Ginger maybe those people collecting signatures should consider being truthful and honest rather than blaming people who have been lied to in order to get their signatures. Knowing the names of the people who are involved in working against this project, their actions collecting signatures further proves what kind of people they are. I can't wait for all of the names of the people circulating these peititions to come out and it will be made public and everyone will know who you are and the standards you will sink to will be known by all in the Village.

I encourage the Village and their attorneys to question people who signed these petitions and if they were signed under false pretenses, such as sign here if you are in favor of the project or the village will go $21 million in debt, then all of the signatures that person collected should be thrown out. Whoever circulated these petitions will be exposed for the frauds they are.

It seems that a few people are trying to discredit the petition takers in an effort to discredit the issue and the idea that Lemont Citizens should have a choice. This is probably just false defamatory gossip. That is low.
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I was approached by a few people asking if I would be interested in signing the petition. There was no pressure, no misinformation just a brief mention that the purpose of the petition was to allow the people of Lemont to consider and be able to vote on whether the proposed sports plex should be built. The petition takers I met were friendly and honest about the purpose of the petition.
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I suspect that the negative story about a petition taker was made up by someone who somehow has a stake in the complex being built.
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Good people of Lemont, don't fall for these low tactics. If you feel that you should be able to vote on whether the complex should be built, find a petition and sign it.

Citizen of Lemont
2 hours ago
So the people circulating these petitions are lying and harassing people to get signatures... What evidence do you have of this ? MY approach has been simple . I respectfully ask if the potential signer is a registered voter in the village of Lemont, are they aware of the proposed $21,000,000 sports complex to be built downtown, and would they like to sign a petition assuring that the proposal goes to referendum so they have a choice in the matter. Once on the ballot they can vote yes or no. Nor harassment, no lying . As a matter of fact most of my signatures are people who have called and come to me seeking the opportunity to sign and have a voice. Even though your statement was an outright lie and full of venom ...Thank you for giving me the chance to once again put the word out.If YOU would like to sign the petition , giving you a choice in this very expensive venture , call me Hank at 630-243-9693 Or come see one of us this weekend BOTH Saturday and Sunday from 5-7 at The Illinois Bar & Grill ...GET YOUR VOICE HEARD!!!!

John Z-

If typo’s are your pet peeve, I’m shocked that you would be for moving forward at this time on the complex. Have you even read the “thorough analysis” by the consultants? It can most graciously be described as a joke. It’s dated after the board had already voted on the project. They don’t even have the facts correct on the size of the indoor facility or the number of indoor fields. They don’t support any of their conclusions on the economic impact to the town, and in several places their conclusions are at odds with statements by the Village Board. Information on the lease and debt payments is absent. These concerns have been raised in public to the board and they have not bothered to address even one of them. Several other sports complexes in the area have failed- this is a risky project, at best. The citizens of this town have every right to force the board to do what it should have done in the first place for a project of this size and risk- properly analyze it.

I am at the CORE just about every day, Monday thry Friday, and the only day that I have seen petition takers there was on the day of the Town Hall Meeting. Sorry your mother-in-law feels that she was mis-treated and lied to. However, the building of the sports complex doesn't guarantee her grandchild will play there every week. I have a nephew that plays at various facilities against other teams, not the same facility every week. Lets just give the citizens of Lemont an opportunity to cast their vote either for or against next March. Should the facility pass, then the people have spoken.

I am one of the people gathering signatures for our petition. I am not evil, political and not expecting any favoritism. I have never before been involved in this type of grass roots activity. I have met many decent citizens, both for and against this petition. Our little group is not disseminating a platform of information on the merits of the Sports Complex. The only message we are expounding is that our petition will bring about a referendum for the voters to decide the issue. We are dedicated to treating our fellow citizens courteous and respectful while out petitioning.

I am wondering what other surprises the village trustees have for Lemont.
Does any one know why the village purchased several parcels of commercial property near Archer and Main St? Will the tax payers be financing another project at that location?
Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Ron,
I am also one of those people gathering signatures, and like you have never been involved in this type of activity before. However, being a resident of Lemont for 68 years, I felt that it was time to get involved. Lets just gather our signatures and then let the voters speak next March. That will give everyone sufficient time to make an intelligent decision.

Thanks to all of the people who are taking the time to get involved with petitioning for a referendum. Let's all make an effort to sign the petition this week end so we can let the village know that we should have the right to vote on major projects like this.

I grew up in Lemont, both my parents graduated from LHS and my grandparents are buried in St. Cyrils cemetery. I loved Lemont for being the small town that it was and then Walgreens built a new building on 127th. Jewel came in, Target followed, and now a massive Sports Complex. I love the small town that it was and aside from all the politics, money issues, etc. I honestly wish these newbies and million dollar homes would go away and we could go back to the Lemont my parents new and the Lemont I knew as a child.

Chris
AMEN!!!!!!!!!

Yeah who needs pharmacy and food stores? They really bring the neighborhood down!!

I would boycott Illinois bar and Grill for hosting this political event, but their lousy food and bad service took me out of there over a year ago!

Yet there are 4 pharmacies now and 5 major stores that sell food! Look how they have wrecked this village!
Seems like Janet Hughes has done more damage this town than the leap into progress!

Todd ,how have they wrecked Lemont?

My comment is sarcasm. Not only have they not ruined the village, they all seem to be holding their own and not closing

Such hate and anger mr Latas! Such hate and anger!

Hey everybody - Let's disagree without being disagreeable, shall we? This discussion can continue to be enlightening for everyone, regardless of their point of view, if we can all stick to the issues and avoid personal squabbles. Have a great weekend!

Thanks Linda. That's good advice. You have a good week end too.

P.S. I had IBG's chicken wings 2 days ago. They were great!

i just wonder if i am the only one who thinks that the mayor and the board have grossly overestimated the number of people who mill make use of this new sports complex. They are estimating 650,000 people will use this complex annually. WOW! Just a few facts to put that in perspective. The Chicago Bears play football at Soldier Field which has a seating capacity of 61, 500. they have not yet posted their attendance record for this year, but in the last 3 years, attendance was as follows: 2009 - 498,000; 2010 - 497,561; 2011 - 497,166. In the last ten seasons, their highest attendance was 535,552 in 1996. So we are to believe that this new complex will attract nearly 115,000 people more than the Chicago Bears did in their best year. Really? Yes, I did consider the length of the season, but let's not forget that ever sport has a "season" so even those that would make use of this proposed complex would also not be playing all year long. It seems to me that they haven't done a realistic study on the usage of such a facility. Also, a complex of this size would most likely require the hiring of additional police and fire personnel to deal with the large crowds and the increased sports related injuries. Just where would that money come from? it seems to me that if this was such a good idea, the mayor and board would want the support of the citizens of Lemont. This whole project was dropped on us at the last minute leaving us little to no time to react.

Kathy, I also thought that 650,000 people seemed like a lot. I did not think to compare that to attendance at a popular professional sport that would obviously have much greater attendance. Great observation Kathy! Also, consider that the people attending a Bears game all pay to attend. I don't think that would be the case with people comming to watch kids play at a local sports complex. The only income I can think of would be the sports teams paying a fee to play and possibly some concession sales. When you think of it that way it would seem that we would never even come close to collecting enough revenue at the sportsplex to cover it's expenses. As someone else said, let's measure twice and cut once on this one. I would like to see all of the trustees research published online by the village so that it could be easily reviewed. Then the Lemont voters should have a chance to ask questions, get answers, evaluate the project and vote at a referendum. "Haste makes waste". Lets NOT "fast track" this project. Lets sign a petition now and have a referendum in 2014.

Let the people ask for a vote so we avoid a repeat of history. Yet another good article showing other Chicago communities' struggles with sports complexes. Here is one quote from a rather critical review of McHenry County's research into one of these complexes in 2011.

One Quote - "A review of several other sport parks facilities in the Chicago area reveals that although they are located in markets of far greater population densities, the only one that appears to be running in the black is located in Barrington, one of the wealthiest communities in the nation."

I love our community, and I am raising a family here proudly, but this community is not as financially "well off" as Barrington if this does not work so can we afford to gamble?

I am not against the complex being built in our community. I am against bad decisions and we do not know enough to say this is a good one. Let's make sure a majority of the community has a vote. Lets try to build something that the Lemont financial infrastructure can support if it has to. Here is the link to the full story. A great read.

http://mchenrycountyblog.com/category/joseph-l-daleiden/
I urge the village or even the Lemont Patch to contact an expert like Joseph L. Daleiden to get his input and analysis of this project. More time = better research.

Hank,
Didn't we make a choice when we elected the office holders? You, Ladas and Hughes couldn't get elected as dog catcher around here!
Don't think you are doing us any favors with your campaign of fear uncertainty and doubt based on your lies and half truths!

You may wish to check your facts about the last election. That's the whole thing with this petition group twisting facts and bending the truth!
Didn't the mayor save his seat as trustee, which was not up for election, while he ran as Mayor against a guy named Maher?

My apologies, mr maher ran as trustee.

I'm not sure if I would vote Yea or Nay on a referendum vote. I love downtown Lemont. I want nothing but the best for my friends and neighbors who live and own businesses here. My "problem" with this project is the "fast track" nature of it. Those who are saying we would cost the town more money by getting the vote are a bit misinformed. Had we been made aware of this in the months/years prior, we could have settled this then.

Government works FOR us. We do not work for them.

Fix our roads. Improve our schools. Clean the canal. This is how you will gain my confidence.

First project like it the village has done in the 20 years that I've lived here! That land has been polluted for decades and will continue to be polluted until it is repurposed. This is a fast track? This is what you and your friends breathe every time the wind blows!

Todd, I agree that the MWD property should be cleaned up and made more presentable. But I don't think the Village should spend tens of millions of dollars to improve someone elses property. Lemont should put the sports complex project on the back burner. It needs more research. I would really like to see the financial forecast that was done to justify the project. There is a huge liability associated with this project. The financial consulting work on this project must be flawed. The sports complex will not be able to pay for itself. The revenue stream will not be enough to cover the annual expenses. The town should not have to dip into other funds to cover the shortfall and the taxpayers should not have to pay for a failed project that we never needed to begin with.

The village has had little to no success getting these federally designated brownfields cleaned up in the last 20 years. The first part of this project requires MWRD to remove contaminated soils down to the bedrock, then it must meet EPA standards for its repurpose.
It's not a matter of making it "presentable". You can't break ground at that site at all, until you have EPA sign off on the complete brownfield remediation project.
VOL has had monitoring wells on that site for years. The brownfield status has been a matter of public record for years.

How much will it cost to clean the property? Is it included in the 21 million dollars or will the additional costs be determined later with millions more at risk? Why would the village want to take responsibility for the clean up? Very suspicious.

Dear Rose Baker:

Give me three reasons why you think this project will fail. I'll give you three reasons why I feel it will succeed: 1) The IHSA is always look for new venues to hold semi-final an championship games; 2) Minor league teams are always looking for permanent homes; 3) the facility can be used year round by any organization that plays an outdoor sport.

Here are 4 to start. Bridgeview Toyota Park, Libertyville Sports Complex, Lake Barrington Field House, and Lakewood Golf course. Each project used the same projection strategies and none performed as promised.

Libertyville, Lake Barrington and Lakewood are up North. Bridgeview is making a profit and they have the Chicago Fire there.

Any project with the words "fast track" tells me we need to hit the brakes, and hit them hard.

An outdoor winter rink? Why bother. Just seeing that as one of the items on this fast track project tells me something rotten is going on behing the scenes.

Dwayne, you might want to do a little more research. Bridgeview residents saw their tax bills triple and more increases are on the horizon because of the project. Look it up, it’s out there. Bridgeview taxpayers were told the same things we are now being told.

Sorry Rose, but I have family that live in Bridgeview and their taxes DID NOT GO UP!

After all I read, the proponents for the referendum would just love to see Lemont go down the old crapper. I guess you can't argue with stupidity...

I dont think Bridgeview built an indoor sports complex to rent to traveling sports teams. They built an outdoor stadium that might get used 3-4 times a month, 6 or leas months a year. Libertyville indoor sports complex is doing well and they are keeping it. Their golf academy and pee wee golf venture are not and they have been attempting to se them for years. But they want to keep their successful Indoor sports arena. That information is contained in the same article that my neighbor Spencer likes to pass around and say Lemont project is doomed.
Spencer how's the air downtown near that EPA designated Brownfield? It hasn't changed in 20 years and won't until someone agrees to develop the land. The remediation of that land is to be done by MWRD. Lemont project cannot start until EPA signoffs. The land lease is attempt for mWRD to collect some of the funds used to clean the site. This was all announced at the public meetings you chose not to attend.

Why don't you look it up Spencer? These matters are all public record. Look up libertyville board minutes too. Their official statements don't match your gossip 40 miles away.
Also look up Lemonts website and see what's in the soil at that site! This is all public record. Think about that when the wind blows! Latas isn't worried about that in Timberline, Olenick isn't worried about that in McCarthy Point and Hughes isn't worried about that in Abbey Oaks area! Point your browser at those well established facts! Do you believe in Science?

Lemont Citizen, why do you hide behind a pseudonym? Is it the same reason that you hide behind Mr. Ladas and Ms. Hughes? Why don't you come out and tell us who you really are? Because I can only consider your comments to be worth a dime a dozen. You, Ladas, Hughes, Rose, Spencer et al have ruined this town; you have ruined the school system. Good luck trying to sell your house in the future when you have a sub-par school system and no businesses.

For someone who is often telling people to "look it up!" you very rarely (never) actually link to any outside sources. You do refer to your past comments quite a bit as well as recycle silly arguments you have made in other discussions about this, thinking that just because this is a new comment thread on a new article, people will have forgotten what you have said previously. Your recycled arguments (such as the one about Libertyville) do not merit a lengthy retort because it was addressed last week (and we all know that).

Todd/JR/Dwayne - People are not that dumb. Your attempts to pull the wool over people's eyes with misdirection, untruths, and ambiguity seem to be failing. It has been plain to all involved that you have a stake in this game. Your retorts have been full of spite, antagonism, and immaturity as well. If I were you, I would very much hope that no one at Patch checks the IPs on those leaving comments. That may very well end up being a news story in itself.

Todd are you worried about the wind blowing on Melshane Ct.? Let's keep it political and not personal.

I am not worried about anything on Melshane Ct. Is there something going on there?

Dear neighbor Spencer,
What was settled at Libertyville? For one who claims to "ask the tough questions", you haven't even attended a public meeting on this matter. One thing you won't hear from Spencer, "I actually called, visited or emailed some one actually involved with the project, asked a question and their response was...." Yet you are quick to label anyone and everyone as corrupt, back dealing..
Enjoy the pollution in your neighborhood!

"Here's another one detailing the back room shenanigans due to this moneymaker"
"Sweet deal for the Mayor, trustees, contractors, vendors,.....",
Also again, businesses are not here for me to "support". They are here to provide me with a service that is timely, relevant and provides value to me. Most businesses in Lemont fail due to their inability to do that. Those that provide a product or service that meet my needs get my business with no problem. Most of the restaurants in town have a menu from 1950's that don't meet today's dietary needs... The few that do get my 30-60 dinner spend approximately once a week.

Silly boy you have repeatedly cried conspiracy again and again and again. The mayor and the trustees, the patch bloggers... Anyone and everyone that disagrees with you is a trustee in disguise,
The food from 1000 years ago = good for you. The foods from 1950s not so much. A good doctor or dietician will help you understand that. I for one do not want a 1300 calorie hamburger loaded with grease! Did they have those 1000 years ago?

I am a Downtown business owner and resident of Lemont, I have watched so many businesses on Stephen Street come and go; in fact there are only three original business left since I’ve come down here. I don’t know of any business that hasn’t been opened with hard earned money, sweat, hope and a dream to make it. But as history has shown that’s not always enough to keep your head above water or your doors open. The Downtown is a severed artery with the bridge above our heads. We, like the uptown need traffic, the sports complex will do that, the builders are going to need gas, lunches and maybe a beer after work that’s revenue. The complex offers the possibility for employment for our residents. How much more money do we want to spend in other towns? While our residents are forced to travel elsewhere for sports. We need tax dollars to continue raising our standards for the future of our village; the sports complex will also do that. I understand if the complex is postponed, the price of everything will have gone up by the time the decision to move forward is made, building contracts ect. How much longer do we want to wait to help our town grow economically? This is ECONMIC DEVELOPMENT.

All business is a risk, but without a leap of faith we go nowhere and nothing changes. A survey was done awhile ago asking residence “how often they spend money in their OWN town” and the results are sad… I can only hope those that are signing the petition to stop revenue from our town are not the same people who said that shop elsewhere

Right on Michelle!!

If you continue to do what you have already done, you will continue to receive what you already have...

I believe the word you are looking for is "support". Funny how you want to support a place that sells 1300 calorie hamburgers, but not a project that cleans up a 20year old brownfield. You may be aware that as a taxpayer you also support all of this unproductive land with its negative dollar tax production. Are you aware you also pay taxes to MWRD?

Do you really need to make an argument by slamming one of my neighbors? That is incredibly mean-spirited.

I would definitely "support" cleaning up environmental risks in the area. Just like I would support cleaning up the canal. However, I don't think we need to be saddled with a 21 million dollar risk-filled investment to do so.

Are you really a taxpayer in town? Your name isn't coming up as a taxpayer of record

So you are worried about taxes you don't pay? Why don't you just move out of town if you don't like it here?

I tell you what. You look up what pollutants have been found in the monitoring wells on the parcel in question and print them here, and I will tell you when whee and how to access public property tax records. It's actually really easy

So your not worried about the industrial toxins seeping out of your neighboring property? You are more worried about my name and property taxes you don't pay, than the toxins you breathe? Yet you claim concern over the canal, which looks the way it looks, but is not on any environmental watch list? Can't beat your logic!

Amen Spencer! Todd, Dwayne, Jr or Paul depending on which persona emerges, serves only as a distraction. I must admit I enjoy the drivel he posts. It provides others the opportunity to prove just how out of touch he is. As for suspicion that one or more village officials are commenting fictitiously, that is already been proven as a fact.

I have lived in Lemont for 20 years and am familiar with the canal for at least that long. I have lived here long enough to know that the village has already spent millions of dollars on small projects to beautify the downtown area. Note the paver walks, limestone planters and old time street lights. Small projects have not done anything to turn that area around. But they do look attractive

Spencer and Rose need to keep in mind that this conspiracy theory does not invoke a grassy knoll, but does involve several berms that are saturated with heavy metals and other industrial pollutants!
A huge worry about taxes spencer admits he does not pay, but no concern here he really is affected..... Interesting to st the least!

Boy that is lucky isn't it? Better hurry to pull the trigger on the Loft purchase! There's only one left!

Yes you better due the proper due diligence! You don't want to find yourself committed to a property that is bordered by a stinky creek on one side, or even a toxic industrial site that no one wants to clean up!

Any time! I'm sure your friends Hank, Janet or Jim won't be as helpful to your cause as you are to jump on theirs!

Rose,
We are still waiting for information regarding a municipally owned indoor sports complex that is failing. Spencer and others have offered privately owned venues of many descriptions, municipally run outdoor arenas for professional sports and municipally operated golf venues. We are still waiting for information as to any projects similar to Lemont that has failed. You guys claim there are so many, but you can't state even one that is correct!

Libertyville for one has a successful sports complex. Your own article stated as much. It states its not enough to pay for an unsuccessful golf academy or pee wee golf center they are trying to sell, but they are keeping the sports facility. Note THEIR words "three distinct projects".

I would like to summarize what we know about the proposed sports complex and get back on track with the discussion that addresses it.
1) It is not really a “proposed” sports complex since the village trustees already decided that they are going ahead with the project.
2) The village trustees made the decision to NOT allow the citizens any input. The trustees had the choice of putting it to a referendum vote and decided not to do that. The reasons for this would make some interesting reading, to be sure. This alone demonstrates that the mayor and village trustees feel the citizens are irrelevant, which violates their fiduciary responsibilities to the village.
3) The project is to be built on a site that is contaminated with toxic chemicals.
4) Since the Mayor said the project is to break ground in March, which is only a few days away, that would mean that the village already knows who the contractors for the project will be. The village did not publish a “request for bids” in the paper so this appears to be a “no bid contract” that the village has awarded.
5) The Market and Impact Study is dated after the village trustees voted to issue bonds and proceed with the project.
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continued from comment dated 2-26-13 at 3:05 pm -----------------
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6) The Market and Impact Study has a lot of income and expense figures which are all estimates. However it has no supporting documentation or even footnotes that explain where the figures came from. How reliable are the estimates?
7) Lemont has better locations available, i.e. Bambrick Park: 47 acres, 280 existing parking spaces, way easier to get to from the highway interchange, we already own it, we would not have to rent from someone else, it is a much more attractive property, no toxic waste to deal with, no worries about degrading Lemont’s infrastructure, easier to control traffic, will not congest existing traffic … what are the 3 most important things about property: location, location, location. So why shoehorn the sports complex under a bridge?
8) If the project fails financially, the citizens of Lemont will pay, Lemont’s credit rating will be damaged and Lemont’s ability to borrow money or issue future bonds will be negatively affected.
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I could go on, but when you look at this it becomes obvious that something or a lot of things are wrong with the village trustees’ decision to build this project. That is why we need a referendum that allows time to further explore the particulars and let the citizens, voters and taxpayers decide whether this is a good project for Lemont.

I would like to address the mayor and the village trustees. Ladies and gentlemen, please call for a referendum on the sportsplex. This is an opportunity for you to show the residents of Lemont that they matter. Forcing the petition to be compiled will send the opposite message. This town belongs to the citizens of Lemont. Everything you do should bear that in mind.

First and foremost this is not a no bid contract by many different federal, state and local laws.
For all of you people stating that his project is illegal, YOU WISH. If it were you would need one signature, from a judge or states attorney or such, not >750, and it would be over already

What did the trustees say when you posed the question? Or are you like Spencer "asking all the hard questions" , when in fact you haven't spoken to anyone involved with the project at all, despite open meetings, despite offers to come to your house or club and explain.... Don't tell me, like Spencer you expect the village officials to cruise the downtown bars until they find a person that resembles his patch photo and then spoon feed him the answers to his "tough questions", that haven't even been asked!

To answer your question, Check the village web site for any bid information. There are also construction web sites that consolidate all of the municipal bids in one place so contractors don't need to check each town every day, they go to one spot and the bid packages are posted.

When they are they are listed there. You can register for an email when bids become available.

I will always be here for you Spencer always!

Thanks Todd. I will. You are a wealth of information.

For everything that's being "done behind our backs", recreational facility has been on Lemonts comprehensive plan in exactly the proposed location since at least 2006.

The same questions asked here were asked at the public hearing - the mayor wrote each question down and there has been radio silence since.

The town needs to publish all the details about this project in one spot on the internet for all to see. The town should approve a referendum for 2014.

Once again Spencer, the village of libertyville themselves state that these were "3 distinct projects", 2 of which failed and are up for sale, golf academy and family fun center, because the indoor sports complex holds its own but cannot pay for 2 other distinct projects. The article you provided states exactly those words. Apparently you are hoping that people don't actually read your references, but accept your distorted view.
BTW the comprehensive plan, including diagrams, is on the village website and has been for years.

Comprehensive plan and diagrams are available on the village web site. Click the magnifying glass on the upper right, enter a search such as "comprehensive plan" and I get several responses. the 2nd or 3rd of which says maps, plans...

I found the village's "Comprehensive Plan." Unlike Todd, I will link directly to it.

http://www.lemont.il.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/125

Todd, are we being made to believe (by you) that in order to have kept ourselves apprised, we are to read this document that is over a decade old? Interestingly enough, it makes no mention of a "sports complex" in it. Just FYI.

BTW, here's a link to the article on Libertyville's Sports Complex that you keep referring to. I invite you to read it again as well as anyone else to make their own inferences. I have read it a couple of times looking for mistakes in how I interpreted it and I can find no way one can't see it as a huge drain on their village. The bottom line is that Libertyville subsidizes it to the tune of 350k/yr (down from 500k). Yes, it is profitable, but not nearly enough to make its bond payments, even after re-organization, privatizing, and shuttering. Libertyville's property taxes HAVE gone up as a result of this and their general fund that used to have over 10 million dollars now has 1 million dollars.

http://libertyville.suntimes.com/news/16641031-418/libertyville-sports-complex-revenue-drain-continues.html

Again though, I hope there is anyone out there except you Todd (who obviously has a stake in this) who can refute anything I have said. You are misleading your neighbors into a risky venture.

Not profitable enough to support the bonds for 3 different projects. That's very understandable!
First sentence of "your" reference "blame it on the waning interest of golf" ...,then the article explains that the golf ventures have not produced the expected revenue...,,

Are you accusing the village of impropriety? If you have ANY credible evidence of ANY wrongdoing you should take that to the states attorney or the circuit court and the project would be stopped with a single signature, not slowed down with 750.
You've got nothing but a handful of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

BTW, I've heard the number of signatures collected is around 1500. More than enough to see this project delayed until a referendum vote can be taken. That's an impressive number given the very limited number of days the citizens were given to collect them prior to ground-breaking.

Hooray democracy!

Spencer, if you had taken the time to read the comprehensive plan you would have seen several references throughout pertaining to downtown, open space, industrial land use, downtown land use.
There are many references to that parcel by name "TriCentral property" as it is known, Stephen St and the sanitary and ship canal at BN RR crossing, industrial drive area, the "brownfield", you really need to read the whole document understanding that these references all refer to the area north of the RR overpass at Stephen. Once again its all right there...... If you have a lot of time you can download the map or walk down 2 blocks to village hall where it is located

Sounds like you found it to me! Now you just want to blow smoke! I said "at least 2006", I will correct my statement to say "since 2002" based on your correction. Thank you for your keen eye for detail. You found the cleverly hidden plan under a tab called "plans ordinances and maps" , where it was clandestinely labeled "comprehensive plan" and "comprehensive plan map", and advises that it is master plan for the future growth and development that was adopted in 2002 and updated in 2006. I said 2006 because that was the first time I saw it, but you have bettered me with the 2002 date.
For a 2002 document, or 2006, it seems like the future is now... It may not say sports complex but they specifically reference recreation purpose, they reference building a municipal building there. Rebuilding the bridge, re finishing the RR overpass.....
Sounds real sneaky to me!

I wish Patch had a "like" system (like Facebook) for Lemont Citizen's comments.

Todd,

Your comment regarding keeping documents updated has since disappeared, but I'm going to answer it anyway. It is INCREDIBLY EASY to keep files updated online. It would simply be a matter of saving the document to particular folder on the village's network.

Barring that, there are NUMEROUS other methods for posting information and documents online. It is very easily arguable that it is easier to keep one's citizens informed and apprised of projects now than at any other point in history. Technology is wonderful.

The fact that you could not find these 2002 documents on the 2013 website is proof of the difficulty of keeping people informed. This information has been out there for years, including the last year of this marvelous technology you tout, yet you yourself didn't even take the time to locate it. Its not that information isn't out there, because it is, it is that people like yourself consider yourselves so informed and intellectually superior to everyone else that you don't even look it up!

Fully one month into claiming to "ask the tough questions" you decided to look up the villages official position and paperwork, after you accused the elected officials of wrongdoing! And only after I personally told you to look this up and where to find it......

Here's a link to the Market & Impact Assessment document as completed by "Market & Feasibility Advisors LLC"

This document was only submitted on 07FEB13. Shouldn't this have been released a bit earlier if groundbreaking was to begin in March?

http://www.lemont.il.us/DocumentCenter/View/686

I tried to get more information on the "advisors" but unfortunately, there's not exactly a wealth of information available regarding exactly who they are.

Here's a link to the Village Q&A as well. Note that the contracts are deigned "sealed bid." If groundbreaking was to occur in March, where are they?

http://www.lemont.il.us/archives/42/Sports%20Complex_RN694.pdf

It is a long range plan for development of the village that your elected officials follow! It references re configuring the tri central property to recreational use with open space and trails, it references a municipally built building in which residents would gather, specifically at the end of Stephen where it meets the canal, it specifically says re work the Stephen st bridge, it specifically states rebuilding the RR enbankment and beautify the bridge, it specifically states add another grade crossing at the tracks. You have to read the entire plan. Then if you actually participate in democracy by going to the meetings they reference it all the time as a living document that assists them in zoning decisions, municipal projects, etc..

It's also very important to note that the size of the facility in the Market & Feasibility report DOES NOT MATCH what was announced as the size in the Village Q&A.

That "version" was released on that date and that is my point to document control. Don't you redate a document with the date of its most recent revision?
If you were to attend one of the public meetings or ask one of the project principals you would have heard that the first phase of the construction is not Lemont, it is MWRD to remove ALL of the soil off of that designated brownfield under EPA over site. During this phase Lemont seeks bids for construction. Lemont awards bids AFTER EPA signs off on a purpose of use that allows recreation facilities. Lemont cannot take any action until they had secured the financing.

Someone once said that “Government is what we do together that we can’t do alone.”
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Does it really make sense for us to elect a handful of people and expect that the decisions they make will be what the citizens want? The sports complex project might be a good example. In order for the People to get what they want, they must be a part of the decision making process of government. They must work with the elected officials to accomplish what the citizens want.


Government derives its power from us – the People. Elected officials need to appreciate this. They have jobs because we gave them jobs. Their job is to hear the People, understand the Peoples needs, propose ways to provide for these needs and seek the People’s approval before taking specific action, particularly when a major project is being considered. The only way they can do this is to include the People in the decision making process. That is the purpose of a "REFERENDUM".

Once again Spencer, document and version control in a project where things can change daily, by anyone or more of 20 people involved is a lot harder than you let on. You obviously haven't worked a project of any size and scope like this. Now heaven forbid spencer should disagree with the concession stand revenues because his outdated version doesn't match yesterday's revision.....

Ok Lemont citizen, at what point should citizens have a say? Is it per manhole? Should we dial in votes to lay a second layer of salt on main the next time it snows? Is it 1 million? 10 million? 20 million?

That's not how the comprehensive plan is viewed. It is viewed as current and it is followed. You should offer your update suggestions when you go over and "ask the tough questions".

Kind of like comparing a soccer complex to professional sporting arenas, or hockey rinks, or golf academies

Not the ice rinks, you reference specifically stated that taxpayer money was never at risk. Nor was Homer glen or any other private project.

Just change your position to match the facts after you have been proven wrong! It's a tactic Hank has used for years!

What known facts or documents? You haven't produced one that has held up yet!

Still waiting for a document that says a municipal indoor sports complex has gone belly up and cost taxpayers money but despite claiming many, you can't provide even one!
I used to think you were a glass half empty kind of guy, but in light of recent comments you are a glass completely empty kind of guy!

And a non tax paying guy with a lot of concern over taxes.....,what's your angle on all of this? Doesn't seem like you have anything to lose?

No they weren't, they have absolutely no connection to what Lemonts plans are.

IF

If that's your concern you should move to Rosemont, because despite many claims against the village leaders, they use bonds like this all the time, they all make money and the village pays the citizens not the citizens pay the village, but I admit that's not an indoor soccer complex either.....

Truth be told Rosemont is 1.79 square miles and 4224 residents to Lemonts 8.35 square miles and 16,725....., so how do you measure small town? Must be by opportunity!
I think the best part of living in a small town is the ability to pick up the phone or go down town and get an audience with the politicians and other village leaders to ask a question or make a comment directly to them. You should try it some time to get the complete experience before committing to a property.

Of course they are apples and oranges! Rosemont does large municipal projects and the village rebates in excess of $2000 property taxes per year to homeowners Lemont does not and they charge $350 per year. That's just some information I thought I would pass on to a neighbor who is obsessed by municipal projects as they relate to taxes.

Entertainment is their largest sector to be exact.

That's good to hear. Nice to see people who care about what goes on in town and who stand up for their rights.

No sir. I recommended that village to you to move to to satisfy your tax obsession.

Yesterday I addressed the mayor and the village trustees as follows: "Ladies and gentlemen, please call for a referendum on the sportsplex. This is an opportunity for you to show the residents of Lemont that they matter. Forcing the petition to be compiled will send the opposite message. This town belongs to the citizens of Lemont. Everything you do should bear that in mind."
-------- Today I would like to reiterate those statements and ask for their response.

Mr Mayor and Trustees of Lemont, may we have your response. Will you voluntarily call for a referendum on whether the sports complex should be built?

Todd commented earlier today: "THats the problem with "democracy" as it relates to large complicated projects. There's a lot of information gained over years of the project life cycle that's very difficult for the average citizen to keep current with. As noble as citizen vote may appear, how do you propose to manage documents and versions of documents in a changing plan that requires signoff or vote by 1500 or more pArtiea"

Todd, would a chronological document file posted online by the village be the answer? That would keep things open and organized for all to see.

I don't understand how your technology is going to get all of this update information straight? People don't look at the static documents that have been available since 2002, but they are going to want to keep up with rapid changes to a complicated project plan that they don't have much skin I the game? It are. You expecting the voters to weigh I. On the project every Friday. It's not the technology, but willingness of an informed voter to want to read a 200 page project plan the first time, then keep up with all of the changes that occur through the project life cycle .....you know they don't do that, they want a guy like spencer to give a laser beam link to his few words that mean the project is doomed, rather than wade through the pages of facts and updates of your plan, read other plans for their merit, or lack there of, search the free world for comparative projects.... You are so funny!!!!

What is a laser beam link to a few words? Are you referring to the URLs (hyperlinks) I have posted to documents the village posted? Or possibly the articles on chicagotribune.com that I've posted?

Do you know what SharePoint is? It's software that integrates with web services allowing for ACTUAL living documents that can be checked in and out by those who have permission to do so. It keeps said documents trackable, searchable, and most importantly available for review. Most document management systems can handle rapid changes to documents. This is not new technology. It also integrates very nicely with CMS and project management software such as MS Project.

None of these technologies are new and none of them require laser beams. They do however, keep everyone informed and apprised.

Todd,
That is the point of technology. It is supposed to simplify things, make them more manageable and our lives easier. Once you understand how to use the software products that are specific to your needs you can get more done in less time. It even makes things possible that could otherwise not be done. I agree with John that an online chronological document file organized by subject would be a great way for Lemont to keep the citizens and officials up to date. Spencer says there is software for this purpose. The village should use it. Actually, chronological document files have been in use for a very long time.
--- I think it is important for the village to keep its people up to date with what is going on. Had that been done previously we may not have had this big to do about fast tracking a $21 million dollar investment.

Sorry. I was laughing just too hard.... A guy that can't even ask the project team a question. Is going suddenly get chatty enough to sell them on an advanced document sharing platform,when he couldn't even find the basic comprehensive map and plan that was hidden under the file name comprehensive plan, on a page labeled "plans and maps" on the public website! Stop it already your killing me!!!

Also, are you again suggesting that a 2002 "comprensive" plan is something that we should consider a valid and current document rather than the historic document it truly is? That seems very stubborn and buffoonish.

I have a question for the forums readers. The believe that the village said that they will be paying the MWRD 25% of the sports complex revenues for use of MWRD's property. In looking into the MWRD I ran across this link : http://www.youtube.com/user/chialdikas which shows a connection between MWRD and a Lemont village trustee. Is this a conflict of interest?

To answer your question John, No it isn't a conflict of interest to lose an election for a post, then hold another post in another jurisdiction that deals with the first jurisdiction.

Spencer, the village comprehensive plan is actively used for ALL zoning matters. It is a constant reference when dealing with building and zoning matters. Just like the law likes to refer back to the constitution for guidance, zoning and building refers back to the comprehensive plan. If you actually participated in democracy by going to the meetings or even reading the articles about what's going on it is constantly referenced. For instance, a developer proposed 200 apartments at 127th st just west of 355 in January. He was rebuffed by the village because that land use was not supported by...... The 2002, updated in 2006, comprehensive plan..... This can be validated through the meeting minutes on the village web site.....cleverly hidden under village meeting minutes

Spencer is the biggest argument against democracy. Someone who thinks they are well informed, but doesn't even know the very basics of how the government actually operates, is too lazy to really participate, even though it looks like you have ample free time to do so, and as a NON taxpayer, doesn't even have skin in this game.

BTW, thanks for the link to the video! I thought it was really funny when Mayor Reavea said " we need someone like Paul to cut through the crap down there at MWRD".
But I have to ask what is the significance of PCs failed bid for MWRD board seat? Do you really think losing the election gave him power over there? Don't you have to WIN an election to get a seat at the table.

Todd, Are you Paul Chialdikas, the village trustee?