Can Class Sizes Be Lowered While Sticking to State-mandated Financial Plan?
As Lemont-Bromberek School District 113A’s belt remains tightened, school board members eye cost of additional teachers.
Some members of the Lemont-Bromberek School District 113A Board of Education would like to revisit the issue of reducing class sizes in district schools by hiring five to 10 additional teachers at the start of the next school year.
Following a financial plan update by Superintendent Susan Birkenmaier Tuesday night, board members entered into a spirited discussion of how the district could accomplish the goal of reducing class sizes while remaining true to its financial plan.
In April, the school board voted unanimously to approve a certified staffing plan that would include no additional hires for the 2012-13 school year. An option considered at the time – to use a portion of the savings from the salaries of retirees to hire five additional teachers – was tabled by the board.
But while the district remains under financial oversight by the Illinois State Board of Education, it’s not clear when – or if – the state board will allow District 113A to add to its teaching staff. Any changes to the district’s staffing plan would require an update to the district’s financial plan, which must also be approved by the ISBE.
The board of education recently approved a tentative budget for the 2012-13 fiscal year that projects an estimated surplus of $2.4 million. But with the budget currently on display and set to be approved by the board following a public hearing Sept. 18, the clock is ticking.
“No matter how we look at it, unless we want to keep the class sizes the way they are, we need to amend the plan,” said board member Al Malley.
Board member Mike Aurelio urged fellow board members to begin planning for the addition of new teachers – with input from district administrators and scrutiny by the board’s financial committee.
“It just gives you the freedom,” Aurelio said. “We will have the latitude to make a decision later. If they (the ISBE) thinks it’s reckless, they would just tell you no.”
“I just want to make sure we are covered for next year,” said board member Cindy Kelly. “We need to make sure we get these OKs (to hire new teachers) in before the start of the next school year.”
But board member Kevin Doherty expressed concern about planning to spend any additional money, even for hiring new teachers.
“For the record, if you want to cut it close, that’s fine,” Doherty said. “But I want it on the record that I object to that.”
Birkenmaier told board members that in recent discussions with ISBE representatives, the state board had not really given “any clear indication” whether the district would be approved to hire additional teachers. The superintendent said the board may have options to submit a new financial plan that includes five additional teachers – and amend its budget, as long as the changes remain under 10 percent of the total budget amount.
In an interview with Patch on Wednesday, Birkenmaier explained that Illinois school code requires school districts to adopt their final budgets by the last day of September.
“We are currently under financial oversight by the ISBE,” Birkenmaier said. “We had to create a financial plan that indicated how we were going to restore our financial stability. We said to the state, ‘Here’s our plan; here’s how we plan to recover.’ ”
"We had some retiring teachers (at the end of the last school year), so the question by the board was, can we take those savings and hire some additional teachers?”
At the conclusion of the board’s discussion Tuesday, the superintendent asked Barbara Germany, the district’s business manager, to prepare a revised budget and financial plan in the next couple of weeks that include the hiring of five additional teachers for next year.
The revised budget would be examined by the district’s financial committee, then sent to the ISBE for comparison to District 113A’s financial plan, and ultimately, state board approval.
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There are plenty of ways to keep up on Lemont news:
Peggy K.
10:21 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012
I have a question for Mrs. Kelly. Several months ago you wrote a letter to the editor arguing against changing the financial plan. This was preceded by a letter to the editor written by Mr. Malley where he wanted to change the financial plan. Why the change of heart? Your position seems inconsistent. Amanda, can you follow up?
Ann Paul
11:33 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012
Peggy K, if you think this is bad, try going to see her in action at the BOE meetings, She flip flops more than IHOP pancakes. Did you know that she is also the sole BOE member on the communication committee who has yet to let parents know of a new major PTO communication policy where no notes may be sent home with students anymore. Parents must now access all PTO communications via the virtual back on the district's website.
Jorg Manteno
8:23 am on Friday, September 7, 2012
Peggy-from what I read, Mrs. Kelly wants make sure that the district is financially sound and receives state approval before it spends more money. I appreciate her responsible approach to the matter. Reckless and careless spending at this point may cause the state to take drastic actions with a FOP or may delay the date the district is off the financial watch list. Thanks Mrs. Kelly for your insighfullness.
Edward Andrysiak
10:42 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012
I see my grandkids with 50 pound backpacks with books. Why are we not looking at E books? Also, in other states there are school districts that have advanced into the age of computers actually teaching in their schools. Class sizes are fifty students and a teacher monitors achievement via complex programs that test and measure kids learning. Kids advance at their own levels. Test scores are very, very, high and costs are way down. Why are we not looking into this advanced teaching method. The technology is over five years old and working well in a few other states. I can think of one reason it will be hard for Lemont to advance to that level and it will be union opposition. I say an advance search team should be put together right now to research these learning systems and report back to the citizens of Lemont and our School Boards. Lets get our head out of the sand!
Mary Van
2:19 pm on Thursday, September 6, 2012
Edward...most likely the cost of that technology is very high, so that would prohibit 113 from going in that direction. Union opposition would never oppose this technology because their (113) testing system is ancient. Also, unions have absolutely no say in the types of testing the district does. The gold standard currently for testing is the ISAT....and their is know way the unions can change that.
So basically, it is a cost thing......
Jorg Manteno
8:31 am on Friday, September 7, 2012
Great idea Mr. Andrysiak. Perhaps you could start a foundation to raise money to support such endeavors or give to the SD113a Foundation toward supporting this type of technology. Can you supply the link with the article concerning the other states/districts that have 50 elementary school district chldren in a class room with this technology?
Spencer D. Smith
9:01 am on Friday, September 7, 2012
50 pounds? A slight exaggeration, right? Actually, I can confirm it is since my daughter just graduated from Old Quarry not too very long ago and she certainly does not have 50lbs of books at LHS either.
I work in technology and I can say with authority that switching to ebooks would be cost prohibitive. Costs would be incurred not only by the devices themselves (not insubstantial) but also in licensing the actual texts (if they even exist in digital form), supporting the devices, training teachers and students in using the devices, and warranty services.
Perhaps in the near future, this may be where classrooms are headed (I envision more of a tablet that functions as a library, laptop, calculator) but the costs and technology just aren't there yet to begin implementing this kind of tech to schoolchildren. Sometimes, the old-fashioned solution is the best one for the time.
Indy
4:46 pm on Saturday, September 15, 2012
I would say parent opposition beginning with me. I do not want my son taught by a computer. I want there to be a human being running the class with technology as a resource. It is a sad state of affairs the day 11 year children are taught solely via a computer screen. Forget about them growing up to be adults that can have relationships or even a conversation with other human beings!
Mary Van
2:22 pm on Thursday, September 6, 2012
Typo......my above comment should say "there is no way"....not "their is know way"....
my apologies.
Peggy K.
10:08 am on Friday, September 7, 2012
Jorg Manteno, can you explain why you are always answering for Mrs. Kelly? When asking about the amount of the surplus, you interjected and interestingly enough evaded answering the question. You then claimed, wrongly, that Mr. Malley wanted to ignore the financial plan. Some of us have real questions and your postings don’t offer any useful insight. Using words like reckless and careless spending are meant only to be defamatory.
A few months have elapsed since Mrs. Kelly and Mr. Malley both wrote letters to the editor. Is there some new information that Mrs. Kelly now has that wasn’t available before? What changed? I’d also like to hear from Mr. Malley.
Linda, I’m sorry. I didn’t know Amanda had left. Can you follow up on my questions?
Jorg Manteno
2:38 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Peggy-can you explain why you ask board members questions on a public forum and not through an email? If you really want Mrs. Kelly to respond-why don't you just call or email her? Her email is available through the district website.
Peggy-you are posting lies and mistruths. I never mentioned Mr. Malley in my previous post. I did reread his previous letter to the editor-as you suggested. He stated that the district was to have a 3.5 million surplus this school year. Is that true? I am confused why this article says the surplus is 2.4 million and Mr. Malley stated 3.5 million in a previous letter to the editor.
Linda-what number is correct?
Peggy K.
3:07 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Jorg Manteno, this is an online forum where we have the ability to post our thoughts and questions to Patch and our school board. Why do you see the need to respond to questions that aren't directed at you?
Secondly, I did see the difference between the surplus from his letter and this article. Mr. Malley had stated that it was projected to be 3.5 million. This article says it is 2.4 million, still a lot of money.
Restating my original question with a little more clarity, what has changed in the mind of Mrs. Kelly? The projection is lower and she has changed her stance to be more in alignment with Mr. Malley. I could see if the amount increased, but that isn’t the case.
Edward Andrysiak
3:51 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Jorg...I do not have a link to the schools that are using this new method of teaching. However, I am told there was a presentation on one of the educational channels and, I believe, Texas was one of the States that had this working for over five years now. They admit the start up costs are high but the result is well worth the investment and the kids excell. Costs level out. I would suggest you contact the State of Texas and follow up. I assume you are a teacher. If so you will be encourage with what you find out. As an aside...I hear our high school has some info on an "electronic pen" that is a teaching aid. If true, I find that real encouraging. Thanks for your interest.
Spencer D. Smith
4:00 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Given the technology and resources available now as opposed to 5 years ago, I have a hard time believing such a program would have been even possible from a technological POV five years ago.
At that time (2007) the Sony e-reader (the first e-reader to be released) had JUST come out and ebooks were very far from being widely used. At the time, there would have been very few ebooks available as well. It was not until some time later that the first Kindle came out that ebooks/readers really took off. I find it hard to believe that a primary school would be an early adopter in this scenario, since for all practical purposes, the ereaders at the time would be relatively useless, given the lack of textbooks available then.
Ann Baker
4:01 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Here they go again, deleting messages that criticize them. Ya gotta love how people who talk about transparency feel the need to delete posts on the Patch. I guess what everyone says about these three having paper thin skin is true. Keep deleting and I will keep posting.
Peggy you sure like to throw around the questions. As Jorg said pick up up the phone or call a board member to ask them, I do not believe it is part of the school board member oath that they respond to questions from fictitious names on the Patch.
I have questions for you, why do you always speak for Mr. Malley and Mr. Aurelio. Did they recruit you to post like they recruit people to attend board meetings, which has been confirmed by people they have asked to attend.
Why do you seem so obsessed with Mrs. Kelly? Are you still getting over an election loss to her?
Why do you sound so much like Ann Paul?
Why do you constantly defend Malley and Aurelio ad nasueum and attack four board members with past comments like "It sounds more like the four want to slip something past everyone. Their arrogance is offensive."
What is offensive is the childish, petty, constant complaining that you, Malley and Aurelio do when you don't get their way. All of you need to grow up.
Peggy K.
4:45 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Ann Baker why should I call? I posed a question for Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Malley or Linda Ozbolt, as a reporter, in an online forum for that purpose. Should I expect a different answer if I called? Why make accusations that can’t be corroborated?
I have met Mr. Maley and Mr. Aurelio and found them both to be rational men. That does not mean I was recruited to speak for them. More importantly, I have not attacked anyone.
Jorg may deny what he said in the past. However his posts and both letters are still visible by searching here on Patch.
I am not alone when questioning why we were asked to accept a 20 million tax increase when there is 2.4 million to 3.5 million extra dollars. I am not alone in believing that our school administration should be accountable us. Especially with the history.
Do I sound like Ann Paul? Newsflash: there are a lot more Ann Paul’s than there are Ann Bakers or Jorg Mantenos.
Ann Paul
4:04 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Peggy K, if you decide to call Mrs. Kelly, give it a day or two so Jorg Manteno has time to script note cards for her.
Linda Ozbolt
4:23 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
First of all, let me say how gratifying it to see so many engaged readers who take an interest in their community!
As I previously reported, the Lemont-Bromberek School District 113A Board of education approved a tentative budget for the 2012-13 fiscal year, projecting $26,375,515 in revenues and $23,958,415 in expenditures -- resulting in an estimated surplus of $2,417,100.
You can view the tentative budget by visiting http://www.boarddocs.com/il/lbcsd/Board.nsf/Public, selecting "View the agenda, Aug. 21, 2012," then scrolling down to "New Business," and selecting "Consider tentative FY13 budget.”
If you have specific questions about the opinions of certain school board members, please send your queries directly to them.
Again, thank you!
Edward Andrysiak
5:22 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012
Spencer...you are fixating way too much on the E book. In fact, this system was implemented in several States five years ago and is working exceptionally well. Twenty years ago I was the design room manager overseeing the work of several hundred draftsmen and designers. We had 30,000 drawings "in float" meaning various stages of work. Via a computer program I designed we were able to keep track of each of them, the hours required to complete, the stage of completeness...the scheduling...the departments need for overtime hours and even the degree of difficulty and the performance evaluation of each individual in the departments. Again, this was twenty five years ago! Did I mention that we were designing complex multi level printed circuit boards via computer as well. It is not rocket science...this teaching proposition is relatively simple stuff!
Spencer D. Smith
5:37 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012
What you describe sounds like fairly typical (these days) project management/CMS software. It's great for the engineering/business world, but I'm not sure how much it applies to day to day activities in a 3rd grade class room.
At any rate, there are plenty of web based systems that manage these same functions for an academic environment. LHS uses a very good web solution called Haiku.
Once again though, it's not a tool for replacing textbooks. It's more of a central repository for documents and activities related to any given class.
I find it odd that you specifically complained about kids having "50lbs" of textbooks that could be replaced with ebooks and then turned right around and claimed your remark was not about ebooks. Perhaps you should read your original post again.
When I was younger, I went to a magnet school where critical thinking and logic were highly emphasized. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Edward Andrysiak
6:13 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012
Spencer...I guess I should have used a term other than E-Books but I was trying to reference a "visual" presentation of class materials. Thought the folks who aren't computer savy would get that picture better. Think about this. How about a History class where the teacher passes out a computer disc on which the school district has predecided what material they want presented to the students in their class room. It eliminates a "hard book"...it can contain, or not, materials more meaningful to that geographical area or leave out material not necessarily deemed worthy. Beats buying a book with fixed information approved by a Board in Texas don't it. The teacher can "record" to the lesson plan giving it a nice personal touch for very few dollars. Copying a disc is cheap. And on and on it could go to all subjects as a "teachers aid". The kids could get the presentation again and again, at home, if they are having a problem understanding the material. I, personally, like the idea. If the family does not have a home computer or TV disc player there are a number of remedies for those few.
Spencer D. Smith
6:46 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012
This functionality exists already within Haiku. A teacher can prepare a PowerPoint presentation (with any number of additional attached documents) and upload it to Haiku for students to process and study on their own time. I know this because the teachers at LHS use PowerPoint in conjuction with Haiku rather extensively. It still has not eliminated the need for textbooks.
I see no need to re-invent the wheel. Chalkboards and good old-fashioned note taking do wonders for knowledge retention.